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When does the AI actually become a threat?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by ChuckVader, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. ChuckVader

    ChuckVader Chieftain

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    I'm currently playing on Emperor level, and I must say I'm a bit disappointed at how pitiful the AI is at fighting. Earlier in the game, 5 different MPs declared war on me, but they never managed to seriously attack any of my cities. Just some sporadic waves of units that I gradually killed off.

    Does this change on Immortal / Diety level, where they attack with enough force to potentially take your cities?
     
  2. gunnthra

    gunnthra Chieftain

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    The AI can field insanely large armies very quickly on deity but their tactics are still laughable most of the time.
     
  3. ICanHasName?

    ICanHasName? Warlord

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    On Immortal the AI actually builds units and war means stuff will attack you. On Diety the more aggressive AI's start to look like the Zerg swarm, attacking quickly and in quantity with a steady stream of reinforcements. If you can stop the initial attack though, it just becomes a few units wandering into your land each turn. No tactics or strategy is used on any difficulty.
     
  4. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Depends on what you consider as a threat. Combat-wise its not very strong at least not on Emperor, but victory-wise - if the AI becomes too big - it will steal the win from you. Greece and Siam are expecially dangerous because of their coding to go for UN victory.
     
  5. lilnev

    lilnev King

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    On Immortal, the AI's can be a threat to wipe you out if they DoW early enough and you aren't prepared. Like 1500 BC or earlier. Then there's a period where you can hold them off, but it might cost you too many resources, and other AI's will get too far ahead. If you get to ~500 BC without an unwelcome DoW, they're not a direct threat. The only issue is time, whether you can wipe them all out before someone goes to space (if you're paying attention, you should be able to keep enough allies to prevent anyone from winning UN).

    I find Deity difficult. The AI spams units so fast, you don't get the same kind of "break in the action" once you've killed their initial forces. You have to maintain a crazy high kill ratio, while still advancing and conquering. The early DoWs are even more dangerous, and I also hit a late-game difficult spot -- perhaps I've crushed 2 AI's and I'm wearing down a third, but I have no more friends and I'm vulnerable to getting triple dogpiled. Maybe that's a question of my diplomacy more than warfighting, though....
     
  6. hellboy909

    hellboy909 Chieftain

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    Use this to your advantage. I tend to skip building any military units early on. I just save up money until the inevitable "I notice your army's kinda puny"/DoW and buy whatever units you need.

    I've only lost once doing this, and that was on Immortal.
     
  7. metatheory

    metatheory Chieftain

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    My problem is I want a challenge but I don't like Immortal or Deity for the insane bonuses to happiness and economy that the AI get. It's completely unrealistic the way they can expand and get such a huge head start. I'm all for giving the AI some bonuses to help it compete with a thinking mind but those bonuses are not applied in the right places in vanilla.
     
  8. dubrown

    dubrown Prince

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    I get the most fun games when I set certain rules for myself that means I can't exploit the game fully. If you play a certain way you'll win in 99% of the cases.

    Right now for instance I'm in a very fun game that's progressing well into the future era, actually, I've never had a game going this far before. But I wanted to use nukes and GDRs against strong opponents so I let the AI run free, keeping myself fairly small with my neighbours still around on my continent. My goal is a late game domination victory.

    At the moment I'm not sure if I'll win or not, there's two strong AIs on the other continent, both have nukes, Babylon is one and he's aiming for diplovictory and has built the UN and had enough votes until I declared war and killed of 4 CS on my continent so I believe he'll not win diplo anymore, though he has a very strong military as well. The other one is Spain which I let go a bit too far, half a continent full of cities, only 2 spaceship parts left to build, on the other hand, I've nuked the bigger productive cities and my GDRs are on a roll. Trouble is that I need to eliminate spain fully and Babylon is on the same continent and he's still quite mad at me...

    To sum it up, late game war is fun, GDRs feels almost like cheating and I can't believe the AI isn't building them in this game, now I'm rolling over spam after spam of AI mobile SAMs which really isn't the best unit to defend against a GDR.
     
  9. ChuckVader

    ChuckVader Chieftain

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    I think Firaxis needs to get with another company that's actually developed war games with good tactical AI. It does seem the AI prefers anti-air units even when they're fighting exclusively ground forces. I've even seen enemy Great Artists invading my territory!:lol:
     
  10. Rathelon

    Rathelon Prince

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    I've noticed the AA thing too. In my last game, I had taken over most of Rome's territory on the second continent and got into a fight with his old neighbor, Persia. Persia had at least half a dozen AA guns that he sent to attack me along with a few infantry and riflemen and a couple artillery.
     
  11. Treso

    Treso Warlord

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    I noticed that sometimes some AIs just get A LOT OF CASH. I say more than 5k gold.
    Playing on King it happens with Alex and Genghis (on the same game) and in another game Caesar have almost 9k gold!!

    How it is possible?
     
  12. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Yeah the only way to have a challenge while opponents don't have insane bonus is to play decent guys in multiplayer. To be good enough, i think you must be able to resist or beat Immortal-Deity waves of units. But there is still not much tactics.

    I finally finished my first real single player game yesterday. I played the last GOTM with Songhai on Emperor level. I had almost no clue how AI will act and in early ADs i found myself to be at war with everyone. I was like : ''hmm this gonna be hard''....:confused:

    What a surprise when i managed to EASILY repulse everyone(5 Cs were at war against me too) and continued meanwhile to whipe cities. Wtf?

    I like to compare myself against humans. That's why i gave it a try to this game. But still not the same than multiplayer.
     
  13. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    One they fix the "scouting with siege" and "embarkment whenever", combat will be much better (i.e. dangerous). The AI is not completely impotent, but improvements are very much needed (like for example Catherine has iron, but rushes with warriors and archers).
     
  14. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    The AI is nowhere near as threatening as it was in earlier Civ games.

    All you need to be invincible to any AI attack is ogliarchy + a few ranged units.

    Babylon in particular can easily turtle up and defend any attack for a very long time with their Bowmen which still remain powerful even when crossbows become available.

    Inca can build cities that are covered by mountains and hills on most maps making them very easy to defend with their movement bonus vs slowed enemies plus using Slingers in strategic hilltop locations. Similarly, Iroquois can keep to forest ranges. Both of these are like having a road on all your tiles plus a free great wall against the AI.

    England can go naval early on with just a couple of triremes using their movement bonus to defend a vast amount of territory, and later on can use Longbows, then ship of the lines to keep themselves plenty safe.

    China with a great general and a few Chu Ku Nus? = Lol how the heck could you ever manage to lose a single city?

    Alexander, Persia, and Monty on the other hand are complete opposites. Rather than defending, you want to be aggressively pressuring the AI with your beefed up UUs / UA for monty. You want to keep the AI paying you ransoms for peace, but you dont actually need to sacrifice any of your units by attacking their cities to do this, just kill whatever units they send at you, capture any workers / settlers, and get rich.

    An aggressive AI Alexander is my single fear in Civ V with his UUs, he is the only leader I dont want to start next to, but he is no match if I am playing as Babylon. But when playing as anyone else without something as powerful as Bowmen right at the start of the game, I hate Alexander.
     
  15. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Yeah. Compared to CIV4 where all you needed to be invincible to the AI was to dedicate that size three 1 pig 1 bronze mine 1 plains hill city on spamming out ranged units that had a waypoint to one of your border cities :lol:
     
  16. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    Then along comes Romes massive SOD with 10 trebuchets, and all your Longbows end up dead :)
     
  17. Smote

    Smote Emperor

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    I feel exactly the same way. Deity strategies are usually just gimmicks that rely on exploiting AI via dependable AI tactics, luxury selling, and research agreements.

    Solution: Multiplayer
    Potential problem: games fail about 50% of the time due to multiplayer issues
    Potential problem: some people hate simultaneous turn combat

    If anyone ever leaves multiplayer game, make sure you luxury sell to AI before anyone else can. You need to pre-emptively exploit AI before opponent can.
     

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