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When is the Great Library not a Library?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Zaimejs, May 7, 2013.

  1. Zaimejs

    Zaimejs Emperor

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    I finally took your (collective) advice and moved up to Emperor last night... played a random game. I decided to take out my only neighbor on the large island/small continent. The Arabs didn't put up much of a fight. When I took Mecca, I found that he had built the Great Library. Hooray.

    However, when I took over the city and went to build a University, I didn't have that option yet. I had to build a Library first.

    So that is my question... why is the Great Library not a Library?
     
  2. nanomage

    nanomage Longbowman

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    The free library has got razed when you took over the city, like any other building could have been. I believe this should be bugreported.
     
  3. I_qua_I

    I_qua_I Prince

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    I don't think this is actually a bug. I recently played a game where I chose the tradition policy that grants a cultural building for free in your first four cities. After founding my fourth they all had free monuments. My third city was captured soon after and when I reclaimed it the free monument was gone. Founding a fifth city did not produce another free monument.

    I think this is how they intended it to work.
     
  4. nanomage

    nanomage Longbowman

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    But how can it possibly be explaned then?
    Building GL provides free lesser version of library not due to some magic and obscure social mechanic, but because Great Library is still a library. It doesn't make sense to me when the regular library disappears after conquest. If GL is still here then what exactly was razed?
     
  5. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

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    There is the fancy big Great Library, and it comes with an auxiliary library used for dedicated research.

    When you take over the city, the auxiliary library gets burned down but the tourist-trap GL is still there? :goodjob:
     
  6. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    May be frustrating, but the prerequisite building for a university is a garden-variety library. GL gives a free library, but is not, itself, a library (notwithstanding its name) within the context of the game.

    If I understand correctly what's coming in BNW, the Great Library will have Great Works slots that, when filled with Great Works of Literature, will generate tourism, further reinforcing the GL's role as tourist trap, not operating library.
     
  7. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    From a logical pov., the free building that comes with the wonder should not be razed. The fact that GL also provides a Library should not be considered as an actual separate library imo., but simply a representation of the fact that GL is itself a Library.
     
  8. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Different treatment for the Great Mosque's free mosque and Hagia Sophia's free temple?

    What about the free amphitheater from Petra, the free culture buildings from Legalism and the free aqueducts from the Tradition finisher?
     
  9. nanomage

    nanomage Longbowman

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    Well as I always imagined it, Petra is an amphitheater, Great mosque is a mosque and HS is a temple, that's why they provide the bonuses of the regular building. Also, GLH serves as a regular lighthouse, too. I perceived free tradition buildings as something different - they I think are meant to appear for free as a result of some kind of communal effort when you adopt the corresponding policies.

    EDIT: Also, there are several Castle-type wonders, Himeji and that Neuschwannschtein, if i spell it correctly. They provide free castles because they are themselves castles I believe. Or is it only Himeji that gives free castle?
     
  10. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Himeji and Alhambra provide free castles, but Neuschwanstein does not.
     
  11. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    I'd say that from a logical PoV world wonders should be razed. :)
     
  12. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

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    Everything is an abstraction. Would a city of 4 million people really just have *one* market and *one* watermill and *one* public school? Would a city 1000s of times more populous than it was in the ancient era still only use the one library it built back then?

    Call the free library raze "damage to the entranceway", whatever. Therr was a war! It needs a few repair hammers before people can check out titles again…
     
  13. tomtom5858

    tomtom5858 Prince

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    And if you're playing OCC with Emigration mod, a city of 750 000 000 people using a single aqauduct?
     
  14. pxpdoo

    pxpdoo Ninja Burger Fry Cook

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    Think it's clear that, as the game sees it, you got your free thing. Here's your free building. Contract complete, obligation fulfilled.
    What happens after that (you lose it, sell it, whatever), is no longer a concern of the game.
    In the case of a free culture building in your first four cities (back to the earlier poster): Here, you got your four Monuments. Lost one in a city? Don't care, you got all four before that happened. Obligation complete, building a "second" fourth (i.E., fifth) city doesn't mean a thing. You want your lost Monument back, then go recapture it.
    That's the game's thinking.
     
  15. Zaimejs

    Zaimejs Emperor

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    Cool responses. I didn't realize that this was a problem as such. It would be nice if when your armies invade a city, you could choose to pillage stuff or not. Not that it matters, but it would be kind of fun to pillage and get money for things in the city... I guess that's what the gold is for when you capture a city, right? But I'd like to control that. Do I want to keep this temple or raze it for 50 gp?
     
  16. kirbdog

    kirbdog King

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    It's usually better to have the buildings. You can always sell them later if you have annexed. The destruction of these buildings on conquest must be considered a penalty to the conqueror.
     
  17. Hambil

    Hambil Emperor

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    It's bugged IMHO, don't try to hard to rationalize a bug ;)
     
  18. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I would differentiate between the cases where the Wonder IS the building, and where the building is an additional bonus to chosing, say, a social policy. Thus, I wouldn't remove the Library from GL, Lightgouse from GLH, Amphitheatre from Petra, or religious buildings from Great Mosque, whereas I would say that the buildings you get from Legalism or Tradition finisher, while being free of charge, are normal building that could be demolished on capture. But of course, that's just how I would make the division.
     
  19. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    How about this?

    Instead of seeing this a library being destroyed, how about you see the Great Library pillaged and made empty, so in this case, the reason you are building a library is because you are refilling the GL with your own books Let's be honest. the chance are their books are inferior to yours.
     
  20. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

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    I believe the reason Neuschwanstein does not provide a free Castle is that it's not really a castle that could be used for defense, it's more of a fairy-tale idea of a castle. Look at it, that can't really hold off a besieging army, can it? :lol:

    I believe that the free library, free anything you get from wonders should not be razed when the city is captured, unless the wonder itself was razed (which will not happen). The "free library" that the Great Library provides is the Great Library itself, not some free building that magically came out of nowhere.
     

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