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When other civs come a-begging

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by CaptainPatch, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    It annoys me when other, usually Friendly civs come to me on their turn cycle and rquest that I GIVE them some of my Luxuries or cash. Particularly when I've just checked Diplomatic Relationships and see that they have several thousand gold in the Treasury, and an income of 20, 30, 40 or more gpt. Makes me feel like I'm being scammed.

    Would be nice to be able to counter with, "I can't afford to just give that stuff away. But perhaps I could sell it to you for _________."
     
  2. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    ... which is exactly what you can do already. Rejecting the request does not give you any negative modifier if it was not a demand, so you just reject and then propose the trade... yes, 2 steps instead of one, but nothing game-breaking.
     
  3. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    It makes me feel as though I'm being scammed too, but I usually go along with it anyway for the diplo benefit, unless of course they're asking for a quarter of my late game dominant economy. I kind of wish they actually did repay you in the future though, because it does almost feel as though it's an exploit the AI is using. I'd like a 'request' option, or maybe a one time use of a nothing for something trade in the future if the AI feels comfortable later. It's really frustrating though when the AI is in a far better position than me, but then goes and says "I'm sorry, but my empire is crumbling at its feet and I need assistance. What? Oh, it's not like we have 200 more gpt than you and are well ahead of you in science. We simply can't afford that resource. Please! Our people are desperate for their beach house vacations to have pears and citrus, and you don't expect us to give up our fall vacation homes too, do you?"

    Still, if I give a resource to them, 30 turns later I can usually trade it to them for a good deal and keep the positive diplo modifier. I think it's worth doing.
     
  4. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    Thankfully they removed that stupid negative modifier with God and Kings, I used to give them Luxuries but stoopped doing that now too unless I feel I can afford it.
     
  5. docbud

    docbud Emperor

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    It is tiresome, but I still give them the lux, if I have plenty of it. But when they ask for most of my Gold, I draw the line. In a game the other night, I only had 1,000 gold (I had purchased a bunch of stuff earlier), and Egypt wanted 860 of it. :(

    What gets me is that nine times out of ten, as soon as they offer you a declaration of friendship and you accept, they will ask for free stuff within 5 turns (at least it seems that fast to me).
     
  6. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    That's what friends are for. ;)
     
  7. docbud

    docbud Emperor

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    ^^^Apparently so. :)
     
  8. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    I've always felt that the proper way to phrase "A friend in need is a friend indeed" should be punctuated as "A friend in need is a friend? Indeed (not)!"
     
  9. EK834

    EK834 Prince

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    When it happens early or mid-game with a Civ I could use an extra bright green modifier with, I sometimes say yes if the request is modest enough (later it won't be so modest...), and when they want to renew the gift, I have it lowered to 1 gpt, which they "generously accept". That becomes a diplo bonus for fairly cheap.

    The other advantage to this is that once it becomes a deal (after the first return), then the AI can beg anew. So that let you get the modifier for really cheap, and you don't lose it for refusing their other requests for help (I "bought" the modifier from Hiawatha for 1 gpt in one game and we kept it for the whole game; his further requests were more in the order of 100 gpt...).

    After a few renewals of the help, if they really like you, they sometime accept to return the favor, and thus the modifier becomes free.

    As for luxuries, when they're out of gold and come to beg and you accept, then, once that gift period is over, they generally like you very much and agree to a generous deal. My last one was renegotiated a few turns ago and after getting it free for a cycle after she came begging, Maria I offered me 106 gold + 7 gpt + OB for one Gem (that's Marathon).

    Those requests are in a good part scams (the player needs to know there's no diplo hit for refusing those requests from declared Friends...), but they do offer some trade and diplo advantages if you can afford the lost gpt or the -4 happiness.
     
  10. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    The potential is that you may have an extra copy of a lux you could not sell, so you give it to him for diplo points. There also exists the possibility that he could ask for a small sum that pushes his wallet up to 240, and you can sell him that lux. The difference between him asking for it and you just giving it is that "You helped us" lasts a long time, possibly permanently, compared to the very short "We've traded recently".
     
  11. isau

    isau Deity

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    Well, basically you are selling the luxury for diplomatic points. If we could straight up buy the points, I probably would. So I don't consider it a bad deal to gift the luxury when asked unless I just don't need the diplo.

    (I'm aware there's a bonus for "We traded recently" but the "We asked a favor and you provided it" bonus is a lot bigger.)
     
  12. Sturmgewher88mm

    Sturmgewher88mm Kaiser

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    Do you mean when they ask/demand for something and your only possible responses are "yes" and "no", or when they open up the trade screen with a one-sided trade deal?

    I think the other posters have been assuming the latter..
     
  13. Biologist

    Biologist Researcher

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    Sometimes I will be generous if the request is small and I feel a need to shore up diplomatic relations. Most of the time, though, the beggar is one of my strongest allies (relatively speaking) and I don't need the extra diplo boost.

    A much more interesting situation diplomatically is when one civ comes to you and says "My relationship with Civ B has deteriorated. I want you to show support for me by denouncing them." Sometimes I agree to denounce if I'm already on bad terms with Civ B, but not always.

    Recently I got a request from William to denounce Hiawatha and refused (Iroquois were the only other Freedom civ besides me while almost everyone else was Autocracy). William, one of my oldest allies, immediately denounced me and I DoW'd him in retaliation. So while refusing a gift has no real consequences, refusing a denouncement can have a large impact on the diplo situation.
     
  14. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    1) It's the AI civs turn.
    2) It's the Trade screen with just what it is that they want from me on the right side of the Trade screen.
    3) They generally phrase their request as something like "Things aren't going too well over here. Can you help us out?"
    4) The only two choices are A) Grant their request, or B) Refuse.

    As far as I can tell, there is NO way to modify the request by dickering to reduce the gold amount to something I'm willing to part with. (In the AI's turn phase, I've never been able to modify the boxed gpt or gold amounts because the cursor is stuck as a revolving globe, which is apparently not pointy enough to highlight a boxed amount.)

    If they were REALLY truly in dire straits, I might be sympathetic. But when I just had checked their finances in Diplomatic Relations during my part of the turn, and there I saw they had in excess of 1,000 gold and they were gaining >20 gpt, that strikes me as a scam. And when they're asking for cash, it always seems like what they want is about 1/3 to 1/2 of what I have in my Treasury. Sometimes even more than half. They apparently have a lot of chutzpah and no reluctance to use it. At least when they're asking for a Luxury, it's generally one that I have extra lying around doing nothing. Still, it's obvious that they could well afford to buy rather than beg.
     
  15. Civilmyzation

    Civilmyzation Chieftain

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    if you refuse, just be nice about it.

    I often keep an extra lux on hand, for this type of stuff. there is usually a strategy I use where I make friends with the top dogs, I have one go take out my biggest religious threat, but send a couple units that will prevent them from wiping them off the map. eventually that civ is basically an extended city state, where you can send tourism and get science via trade route with absolutely zero fear that they can ever make it back up to the top even with your science boost. and that is the Civ who in late game will get that extra lux, as the other tops dogs are likely hating my guts for going with a different ideology.

    some probably don't care and want the money, I prefer to have the lux to keep a civ I need for that specific time on my side. I find this keeps them from asking for gold or GPT as much. as I just don't like giving up my entire bank to a potential backstabber.
     
  16. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    Ghandi is the best beggar, a few days ago he asked for 9652 gold our of my treasury which was around 14k.

    Why ask for so much, when you can't ask, except demand for one single coin of theirs.

    Complete rubbish!
     
  17. Civilmyzation

    Civilmyzation Chieftain

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    it kind of is their version of demanding it. I mean, we view it the same way the CPU reacts to it.

    "WTF IS THIS"
     
  18. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    I have 14 cities, they have 3.

    They are allowed to ask nicely if they need help, no worries.

    But IT is sort of different, you can't reneg, you can only agree or disagree. But really, why ask for so much, "Gimme 120g please" I would accept just to do him a favor, but really....9k?

    "WTF IS THIS" "copied that!"
     
  19. Walter R

    Walter R Great Engineer

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    Purely for flavour I'd like a 3rd option button: "Sorry to hear that...my empire rocks! (but no you can't have a damn thing)"
     
  20. Doktor Vic Tim

    Doktor Vic Tim King

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    I gave Askia 658 gold.

    Two turns later he declared war on me. (The first time's he's ever DoW me)

    From that day on, I realized the only reason AIs want money from you is to use it against you. Heck, I'm going to guess they try to weasel you out of your money so you can't keep a hold on your city states.

    But I can spare a lux 75% of the time. -4 happiness is not always a problem to me, and I can start charging for it later.
     

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