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When to trade?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by pzs_80, Oct 16, 2008.

  1. pzs_80

    pzs_80 Chieftain

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    A thing thats been bugging me is when to trade a tech.
    I often find myself low on cash in games, and I'm reluctant to lower my techrate, so I often end up trading techs to everybody often for fairly low amounts to keep my teching going.
    I sell it to everybody that I have contact with in the same round.
    I hold on to the strategic og wondertechs, but I can't really tell whether to trade for low prices (120 gold maybe) or refuse to trade unless they have a lot more. Problem is, that they don't, not untill very late game.

    Any pointers on tech trading ?

    I play nobel/prince for reference.
     
  2. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    It totaly depends on what you want to achive. Trading feudalism to the AI so you can get more gold to research guilds faster to conquer them before they get longbows isn't very smart for example... If you want to win liberalism don't trade away the prerequisites for it.
     
  3. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    Getting Feudalism + cash off the AI so you can tech guilds is a good idea however ;)
     
  4. Maxit

    Maxit Chieftain

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    The AI doesn't usually have enough gold on hand to make a trade just for gold worthwhile for me, so I prefer to trade for other techs and maybe get some gold as well. But I wonder why you feel you are so low on gold that you need to trade for it. You didn't say much about your game. Is it possible that a more strongly developed economy will eliminate the need?
     
  5. Cabledawg

    Cabledawg King

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    When to trade is a tough question. I like to trade just after the AI's have had their afternoon nap. Thats usually around 2:00. Some of the Industrious AI's dont even take a nap.....put a mickey in their drink and they will trade everything.
     
  6. 6K Man

    6K Man Bureaucrat

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    Well, the ideal way to trade, obviously, is to get (approximately) equal cash value back for the beakers you invested in getting the tech in the first place. So if you're getting 120 gold for your techs, you aren't doing that well (unless you're selling Animal Husbandry or something).

    Usually, the best way to get a decent return is to trade techs for techs, because as has been noted, the AIs seldom have a lot of cash on hand to pay a decent price for techs. The key tech trading tactic seems to be beelining for a tech the AI doesn't usually research early (like Aesthetics) and trading it (on the same turn) for several different techs from different AIs. This will get you the most bang for the buck.

    Putting it another way - if the AIs have no techs to trade (or refuses to trade), and you are selling techs for 120 g (or really, any amount less than about 1/4 of the tech's beaker value), you're making it easier for the AIs to catch up to you, in most cases. I can understand the desire to not turn down the tech rate - I'm the same way, often - but the midgame is where I usually pull away from the AIs techwise. Logically, selling them techs on the cheap makes it harder to do that - much harder than just turning down the beaker rate for a few turns would.

    The exceptions to the preceding paragraph would include situations where you are selling outdated techs (ones that just about everyone has, anyway), selling techs to an ally or vassal to help them help you, or if the cash proceeds provide an immediate benefit (like giving you the cash to upgrade your stack of CR Macemen to Grenadiers).
     
  7. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    The best time to shop around for cash is right after a wonder gets built -- all the civs that didn't succeed in building the wonder will have their pockets full of compensation cash. You can get some good deals there.

    Typically though I don't sell techs for cash alone, unless I really need the money (race to liberalism, troop upgrade, economy still recoverying from early expansion) or if it's a really cheap tech (literature) or an out-of-date tech to a backwards civilization.
     
  8. Charonicus

    Charonicus Warlord

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    Good advice. I noticed that too.
    I find on noble or lower that I'm usually ahead on techs. Obviously it's nice to trade a tech for something you need but when the AI has nothing to trade?
    Trading 'em for cash is nice, especially as the AI will no doubt demand it off you before long. I also like it when someone with too much of a military focus (Ragnar) can be bribed with things like Drama (when I'm already up to gunpowder), so hanging onto them also has its uses. I think a lot of it is game dependent. I do tend to trade off a tech when I lose monopoly on it though, like if I have drama and someone else gets it, I'll trade it to everyone else before they do. :p
     
  9. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    the best time to trade is before they someone else can tech it and trade it to everybody else.
     
  10. roger62

    roger62 Chieftain

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    when do i use open borders?
     
  11. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    As early as possible, to get religion spread and trade. although, if you are trying to block someone off it isn't to be advised.

    And welcome to CFC!!!!
     
  12. Fraxander

    Fraxander Chieftain

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    1.when like let say one of your neighbors demand a tribute from u(a technology) and if u don't give,i will be sorry....his cautious against me....give or not to give?
    2.if one of your friendly civics ask u to cancel deals with other civics and that civic is your friend,to cancel or not to cancel?
     
  13. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    1) If you are going to war against that civ soon, don't give. If they are pretty near and higher in power, it's probably best to give tribute. It depends on the difficulty level really, at noble and below you don't really need to watch diplomacy that much, as long as you are sensible and build some defensive troops.

    2) Tough one, if you cancel you get a -1 diplo hit with the civ and they wont talk to you for a few turns as well. If you are trading vital resources, don't cancel. Otherwise, it's not too bad because you are friendly with both civs, so a small diplo penalty isn't that bad.
     
  14. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    you will get more than -1 if you cancel trades, because you will also lose your +2 for open borders.
     
  15. Charonicus

    Charonicus Warlord

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    1. You say neighbour, so I'll presume you mean someone sharing a border. If you have the troops to fend off an attack or were planning on attacking them anyway, tell 'em to get stuffed. :p If you're already busy attacking someone else or were trying to get on their good side anyway then give. It's a +1/-1 either way, cumulative. If you give you also get a 10 turn peace treaty which can be handy. But always take into account *what* they are asking for. If they swing by demanding drama for example, and all related wonders are built already then you might as well give. If they come by demanding a valuable military tech then tell 'em to sod off. ¬¬

    2. This is always tricky. Firstly, choose friends that are friends with each other where possible to avoid this situation. If that isn't possible, you need to evaluate the possible penalties. If the demander is already highly friendly then it might just be worth a -1 diplo hit to say no. Saying yes will cancel all deals with your other friend, open borders, resource trades and such and also put them into *refuses to talk* mode with a -1 hit (plus the loss of 'our open borders bring our people closer together').
    Consider these two scenarios.
    Saladin comes by asking you to cancel deals with Frederick. Saladin is at a +18 with you. You have OB with a +3 bonus from Freddy and are trading rice for 12 GPT. Say no. :p
    Saladin comes by asking you to cancel with Freddy. Saladin is at a +8 with you, Freddy is at +20. You have no trades, just a simple OB with a +1 bonus. Say yes.

    Either way, once this event passes you have two important choices to make.
    1. Find another friend that is friendly with either Saladin or Freddy and change your diplomacy strategy accordingly.
    2. Find a way to make Saladin and Freddy friends. Ways to do this include, getting them to share a religion, bribing them to use each others favourite civics, sending them to war against a mutual enemy. This is what makes diplomacy so much fun. ^^
     
  16. Fraxander

    Fraxander Chieftain

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    many thanks....cheers!!
     
  17. Supr49er

    Supr49er 2011 Thunderfall Cup

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    For trade routes and to spread your religion.

    Welcome to the Forums. :beer:
     

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