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Where Does Tourism Come From?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Minou, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Minou

    Minou Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
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    262
    Maybe I should actually have called this thread “Where DID Tourism Come From?” as the patch is about to make a big change by nerfing Great Books. Anyway, over my last few games, I have been using a spreadsheet to track the sources of tourism and get a better handle on what helps with fast victories and what is just a distraction. I was disappointed to confirm what many good players have known for a long time, that Great Books are massively superior to everything else (barring lucky Relics) for fast victories.

    A Great Writer costs much less than a Great Artist (60GWp versus 240 GAp) and those costs are easier to meet (e.g. Literary Tradition comes way earlier than Frescos and Amphitheaters give GWp but not GAp). Great Musicians are even worse becaiuse they are even more expensive and slots for Music are so hard to get. Other sources of tourism like Artifacts and Wonders are better, but all things considered Great Writers will always be the correct path for a fast victory.

    That is why I am THRILLED that Firaxis nerfed Great Writers in the patch. I think this is great for many reasons. One is that it makes other sources of Tourism worth chasing after instead of a boring strategy of Theater Square, Amphitheater, Festivals. Another is that it should slow the game down a bit, since people in general seemed to feel Cultural Victory was too fast.

    A second great thing about the patch is that they FINALLY got rid of Goddess of the Harvest. That will make planning much more important as opposed to "chop everything and buy Amphitheaters/Museums/Archaeologists/etc. with faith"

    With those changes breaking tomorrow, my charts are already outdated, but I wanted to post them and then follow up with some from the patched version to get a handle on how things changed. My personal play style is to aim for T150 in Cultural Victory games. I often fail of course, but this means in general relying on a blend of Religious, Great Work, and Wonder tourism and thus finish before Flight/Radio. If this mark is missed, it is usually easy to rapidly catch up by spamming Seaside Resorts and/or culture tile improvements (e.g. Zigurat or Moai), but by that stage I usually would consider my game to have been a miss.

    Below I will post three examples using the charts.
     
  2. Minou

    Minou Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
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    262
    Here is my first example game a T167 win with Gorgo of Greece (Deity, Standard Size, Continents). Not a great date by any means. This was a mostly peaceful game though I conquered 4 Chinese cities after running out of room to expand.

    The map was kind of odd, with my Settler spawning on a very long and skinny peninsula of land. My favorite Natural Wonder, Piopiotahi, was on the peninsula, providing a nice jump start to the game. At the very tip there was a barb camp, which I farmed for culture kills until my Warrior was shot down by an Archer, unable to to escape due to the terrain.
    Spoiler :

    Start.jpeg


    Since there was only room for 4 good cities, I had to expand by force, sailing a small army of 3 Hoplites, a Warrior, and a Ram to take a Chinese city wdged by mountains against the sea, and then three more cities. The conquest was worth it as I captured Pyramids, Great Library, Stonehenge, and Jebel. Capturing their best city was a real slog as they got walls up, upgraded a Spear to a Pike and popped a Knight. After I captured it I spent tons of gold to buy luxuries for happiness and to swap policies to try and keep it from Loyalty flipping. It did anyway after about 10 turns - and then again every 5-10 turns for the rest of the game, but I had enough troops that I could always reconquer it . This actually ended up benefiting me because I had Warlord’s Throne up.
    Spoiler :

    War.jpeg

    The war with China results in massive Diplomatic penalties, but this had almost no effect on the game because I had already signed Open Borders and/or Firendship with the other AIs. Two eventually denounced me and Cree even declared war, but the lost tourism from that was more than made up for by the captured wonders.

    I had both good and bad luck with continents. Good in that 4 of rthe 7 AIs were on my starting continent and the other 3 reachable by shallow water, which let me contact them for tourism quickly. Bad though in that only ONE city state (Brussels) was on my starting continent, leaving all those free envoys from Acropolis wasted for half the game.

    Goddess of the Harvest was still available at T36. Thanks to Hoplite being worth 4 Era Score I was able to just make it to a Monumentality Golden Age, though with space so limited I did not really take full advantage of buying Settlers. I did found a religion with Jesuit Education, so the faith was useful for Amphitheaters, Museums, and later Naturalists.

    Great Writers were my main source of tourism (a bit more than half). They were recruited at T66, T74, T81, T89, T97, T100, T105, T113, T132. I missed the 4th Classical Great Writer by a hair - would have chopped a project to grab him one turn after Kongo got him. However, I had enough gold to buy Kongo’s Great Books at T114. Ultimately, I ran out of Great Book slots because I had hoped the game would be over before T150 and had no more cities that could build Acropolis either due to lack of hills or production. I ended up earning 3 more Great Writers that I couldn’t use.
    Spoiler :

    Stalled Writers.jpeg


    Great Artists were gained on T95, T117, and T134. I actually themed one Art Museum, but the value is so poor (just +12). Art really should provide about triple the tourism it does given how hard it is to obtain and theme! One Great Musician on T111. I never got to use his second charge because the buildings that hold Great Music come so late.

    I under-focused on Artifacts and did not get my first Archeologist until T116, then waited until T146 and T157 for the second and third since (again) I underestimated how long the game would go. It took till T160 to theme two of the three Archeology Museums, partly because of bad luck and partly because I was a bit lazy excavating artifacts too close to my borders instead of farther afield.

    Walls actually helped this game. I had six Ancient Walls up when I hit Conervsation on T122 and ended up also building Medieval Walls in all my cities (easy with Limes) and even a few Renasance Walls. At the end of the game I had 37 tourism from Walls, about the same as I had from Art.

    As for modifiers I had Open Borders with all Civ except China most of the game and 4 trade routes (never bothered to get the with the farthest 2 AIs). Pingula got Curator on T83, Printing Press complete on T90, Natural History complete on T115, Conservation T1220 Cultural Heritage complete on T131.



    So, how did the tourism sources play out? Here is a graph of how much raw tourism was generated by each source:
    Spoiler :

    Greece sources.jpg
    Part of the reason Great Books yielded “only” half of the tourism was my slow victory time. You can see how they were providing the vast majority of toruism up to T120 in this chart, at which point late game effects like Naional Parks, Art, and Artifacts start to make an impact - if the game had eneded T150 though


    And here is a pie chart breaking it down at the end of the game:
    Spoiler :

    Greece Pie.jpg


    Here is total tourism per turn by AI source - this reflects all the modifiers like Open Borders, Different Religion, and Trade Routes.

    Spoiler :

    replace.jpg


    A breakdown of the relative impact of tourism sources:

    Great Books: As expected, Great Books provides the majority of toursm (51%). I am sure a better played could have won this game before T150, in which case Books would have been an even bigger part of the pie. Likewise, this would have been even more if I had planned better and built a few more cities for additional Amphitheaters so those last few Great Writers were not stranded.

    Wonders: These made a pretty big impact this game (16%) in large part because I captured 4 of them.

    National Parks: Surprisingly, National Parks were next (9%). One advantage of the skinny peninsula is that all the water tiles made it easy to find National Park sites. I used Goddess faith for three Naturalists, completing parlks on T123 (20 tourism) T130 (16 tourism)

    Walls:
    I often forget about walls in Cultural Victory games. but this game I really pumped them out and had 10 Ancient, 6 Medieval and 4 Renaissance Walls. This ended up being 6% of total tourism.

    Art: Three Museums (one themed late) yielded 6% of tourism showing how much more efficient Great Writers are compared to Great Artists.

    Artifacts:
    Three Museums (two themed) yield 6% of tourism here too, though I feel I did a bad job with planning these so it could have been more like 10% if I played better.

    Holy City: This was worth 3%. Not a lot, but it probably saved me 2-3 turns.

    Music: One work of Music yielded 2%. Since I missed Apandana, I never had a slot for the second work. I really feel like Music should be worth about 20 tourism to make those ultra-expensive and hard to use Great Musicians relevant.

    Relics: I never got one of my own. Kandy was in the game but I discovered all the Natural Wonders long before I got Suzerain status because vassal city states revealed them all. I did buy a relic from Kongo but it was so late in the game it account for about 1% of tourism.

    Arena: Totally random, but Arena's provide 1 tourism after Conservation. So, I got maybe 50 tourism (a tiny fraction of one tourist) from the one I built.


    Finally, here is a graph of tourists needed versus secured. Kongo really got rolling this game and was producing domestic tourism faster than usual. I haven't tracked this enough to have a good handle on average AI domestic tourism accumulation, but I would have won on turn 147 or turn 153 based on the tourists needed tracking from my previous two games.

    Spoiler :

    Greece TvN.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  3. Minou

    Minou Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Here is a second example of a semi-normal (for me) Peaceful Cultural Victory. This is actually a Rise and Fall game (Deity, Standard map, Continents) with a T158 Victory. To be honest I somewhat prefer R&F to GS since the World Congress and weather events feel random and often annoying, and AIs paying ridiculous amounts of gold for Diplomatic Favor almost feels like cheating.

    I played Russia and lucked out getting 20f from an early hut to secure Goddess of the Harvest (good riddance, but it was fun despite the imbalance). I played this as a Peaceful game - no declaring on AIs / City States, and if someone decalres on me, I will kill their units as needed to defend myself but will not take cities or pillage.

    Spoiler :

    p1.jpeg


    This was a nice map which allowed me to seal off my southern border using the Mother Russia tile bombing ability and thus plenty of space for cities without warring. I also laughed a little when I saw Rome because I knew they would love me for “having a large empire" thanks to tile bombing. I was a bit annoyed that Spain denounced me for being “low culture” when I had 18.4cpt at T53!

    The most nail-biting part of the game was just barely getting that first Golden Age. When I got the 10 turns to era change message (T34), I was at 18 Era Score. I completed a Lavra to get to 22 and then moved in to clear a camp for the final 2. It should have been an easy win over a redlined Spear, but a Warrior spawned between turns and bashed my Warrior redlining him too. Luckily the Spear suicided into my injured Warrior, who survived and then sacrificed himself to clear the camp.

    Spoiler :

    p40.jpeg
    p41.jpeg


    This map was really good so I am kind of ashamed of my finsh time. I sent a 1-charge Builder sailing east at T59. Very luckily, he met Babylon on a small continent with three city states. Babylon is obviously great in Cultural Victory games, and ended up adding such a massive amount of science I never even bothered to build a second Campus. This exploring builder met Egypt (T72), Scythia (T78) and Norway (T78) in rapid succession. Can’t overstate how useful it is to sned 1-charge Builders out in Culural Victory games, where each AI met adds a big boost to tourism per turn.

    Spoiler :

    r65.jpeg


    In the end, I had Friendship and then Alliances with the three AIs on my continent so never needed any military. However, Norway really threw a wrench in the gears late game. First, they wiped out Egypt! Nothing I could have done there, and it actually cost me about 10 turns as I calculated I lost roughly 17,000 overall tourism points due to Egypt’s death. Much later, Norway surprise attacked and killed off one of my undefended island cities. I was able to purchase a unit and send some envoys to Valetta to gain Suzerain status and buy instant Ancient Walls, but the city still fell. I evacuated my two Great Books that were in the Aphitheater, but losing the city cost me some time when I ran out of book slots shortly afterwards and also deprived me of a trading base for overseas AIs.

    Overall I probably could have shaved a dozen turns off if I had focused more in the late game. I stopped expanding around turn 100, but really should have founded at least two more cities far from my core to establish trade routes with England and Scythia, and to chop Theater Squares to make room for more Great Books. I was also not checking every turn to make sure Open Borders had not expired, or diligently swapping governments to get the best modifiers there.

    A breakdown of the relative impact of tourism sources:

    Spoiler :

    Russia Pie.jpg


    Great Writers: Great Writers contributed the majority of tourism again (51%). After finding Cliffs of Dover on T28 for Astrology boost, I was able to get the first few Lavras up quickly (T36, T38, T40 then T76, T90) which gave me my first Great Writer at T57. Theater Square (T63, T66, T67, T89) set up more Great Writers at T67 and T71, though I lost the fourth Classical Great Writer when Scotland bought the them for gold a turn before I would have gotten them. Seven additional Great Writers followed up T84, T93, T98, T111, T119, T127, and T141.

    Wonders were second with 13%. This is probably too high - surely I would have been better off running Theater Square Festivals than building a few of the Wonders I made, but they are fun.

    Artifacts were helpful at 11% - these were much easier to get since I could buy Archeology Museums and Archeologists instantly with Goddess faith.

    Artists contributed 8% - more than usual, because Lavras meant more Great Artist points (and started the accuumulation earlier).

    Musicians contributed 5% - much more than usual since I actually got 2 this game thanks to Lavra, had space for 3 Great Works of Music thanks to Apandana, and all were doubled since they were in the capital with Curator Reyna).

    Relics contributed about 5%. This is actually an overestimate since I did not properly track when tourism dropped from 8 to 4 as AIs got different religions. Since I had lots of spare faith in the middle game, I purchased a couple Apostles and two of them got the Martyr promotion, allowing me to score two random relics (T95, T101). Kandy was actually in the game, but by the time I met them (T71) all but one Natural Wonder had already been revealed and I was never able to use them for a free Relic.

    Holy City was worth about 4% (again an overestimate). Holy City is always somewhat helpful since it comes so early, but almost never a big impact.

    National Parks provided 3%. I didn’t plan well here and could only build one, because my districts ruined alot of possible slots.

    Tourism by source over time:

    Spoiler :

    Russia Correct.jpg


    And here is tourism by AI source over time, accounting for modifiers. This chart shows how tourism starts slow and snowballs out of control. Tourism jumps 10x between T50 and T75 and another 6x by T100. The big boosts come as Great Writers start pouring in and Printing Press arrives at T95.

    T50: 24 total tourism per turn
    T75: 246 total tourism per turn
    T100: 1543 total tourism per turn

    It also shows the impact of an AI getting wiped out. Egypt getting overrun by Norway was huge - about 17,000 overall tourism points assuming they would have had Open Borders and a Trade Route.

    Spoiler :

    Russia AI.jpg



    Finally here is the tourists secured versus needed again. My first actual tourist only arrived at T85 but at the end of the gae they are arriving 2 or 3 per turn. Note also sometimes one of the graphs goes down, as AIs get tourists from me or I pick one off the lead AI. This game was a lot easier than the Greece game since no AI really went wild with culture like Kongo did in the Greece one.

    Spoiler :

    Russia TvN.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  4. Minou

    Minou Chieftain

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    Here is my final example game. This is a peaceful “Religious” Cultural Victory (Deity, Standard, Continents) again on Rise and Fall. I played this map a long time ago and saved it since it was such a great start. So, I replayed it to see how fast I could win with mostly Relics in ideal conditions. I won on T156, which I am sure is laughably slow compared to what some of the best players could do with this start. Nonetheless, my point was to use this as an example of a game where the majority of tourism is from religious sources.

    This is the best map I have ever played for Relics. Uluru was visible at the start. I popped a Relic from a hut T5 and then met Kandy T13 and Yerevan Y16!

    Spoiler :

    Kandy relic.jpeg
    City states.jpeg


    I missed out out Goddess of the Harvest despite the T5 Relic, and took Divine Spark. I settled my second city adjacent to Uluru to get a massive culture boost (though I really wish there was one Oasis tile near the wonder, which would have made it SO much better). This plus huts, Ziggurat, and a triple-adjacency Holy Site easily secured a Monumentality Golden Age.

    One major setback was losing the Pyramids race on T43. I had to fall back on quickly chopping Hanging Gardens to get the Drama and Poetry boost, but the loss of the bonus charge hurt me big time over the course of the game. Another setback was losing a city. I was paying no attenion to the AIs and got attacked by Korea late in the game. They did nothing except suicide two units, but a wall of 5 Swords and an Archer from their vassal Carthage actually burned an outlying city with a Theater Square and Amphitheater. Totally negligent of me, and it did set me back - I was able to tranfer two Great Books out of the city before it fell but lost those two slots foreever. Annoyingly I completed the Apandana the turn after the city fell, thus coming with an inch of ending the attack by un-leying Korea’s control of Carthage with the two envoys….

    Spoiler :

    Kandy sac2.jpeg


    Once I found Kandy, I had my Scout moving very carefully while using the Appeal lens to check for nearby Natural Wonders and avoid discovering them too soon. I found the borders of Tsingy on T24 and gained Suzerain of Kandy T44 with Amani, and got Theology for a Temple so my Scout could finally “discover” the wonder for a Relic T55. In the meantime I founded my Religion with Reliquaries and Holy Order founded T48.

    Nubia steammrolled La Venta and I had to levy Kandy’s military to protect them as they were next in line. I had 5 levied Warriors to shield the city, which was quickly reduced to 0 by Archers. Sadly, having 5 instead of 6 Warriors allowed Nubia to push forward with enough units to take the city state at T68, so I only ended up getting one Relic from Kandy - there were no other natural wonders found on my continent, and Kandy was dead when I found one overseas at T89.

    Spoiler :

    Kandy defense.jpeg


    Yerevan was much more useful. Nubia actually vassaled them and sent their army against Kandy too on T60. I wrested control away on T75 and dialed up my first Martyr Apostle. He created a Relic on T83, I got more four relics from Apostles on T90, T97, T108, T128.


    Here is the break down of Tourism sources, What was interesting to me was that Religious tourism was nowhere near enough for victory, even in these great circumstances (7 relics by end). One issue was that deep water sailing was required to find the last 3 AIs. The other was that the AIs quickly founded and spread their own religions, with 3 of the 4 on my continent having the -50% modifier by T66. To make up the deficit, I secured all four Classical Great Writers (T66, T72, T77, T81) and several later ones (T94, T99, T117, T125). I pushed for Cartography before Printing Press since meeting those 3 overseas AIs was more valuable in overall tourism than doubling my Great Books, and so met Poland T89, Mapuche T91 and Aztec T94.

    Spoiler :

    Kandy Pie.jpg


    Tourism Breakdown:

    Relics: The really interesting thing for me was that even with the perfect start, Relics (46%, 7697 tourism) account for only slightly more tourism than books This partially because books are so overpowered and partially because the effect of Relics was quickly blunted by different religion penalties (things would have gotten worse if any AIs reached Englightenment, but the game ended before that). Without Goddess of the Harvest, I never had enough faith to convert the AIs to my religion.

    Great Books: (42%, 7036 tourism). Great Books were actually producing more tourism per turn than relics by the end of the game, but Relics still provided more over the course of the whole game since they started contributing earlier.

    Everything Else: None of the other sources made a huge impact. Wonders (5%), Holy City (3%), and Art (3%) made minor contributions Parks (1%) came too late and Walls (<1%) provided only a tiny trickle at the very end. My first Art Museum was up T115, four turns after the first Great Artist. I eventually filled three Art Museums but still did not even have one themed, and they barely mattered due to the low value of Art. I never bothered with Archeologists and built one National Park just for kicks on T141 when the game was all but over. I actually also got a tiny amount of tourism from Walls this game as I hit Conservation on T139.

    Here is tourism over time. Relics start pushing things fast but level off as Different Religion penalties erode their power. It becomes obvious that even with Kandy and Yerevan, Relics alone won’t be enough. Books are key and Printing Press is the biggest single boost in the game. Other sources are icing on the cake - fun to a certain extent but barely making an impact compared to books.

    Spoiler :

    Kandy.jpg


    Finally here is tourism by AI. Getting to the other continent took till almost T90, but it more than doubled tourism per turn since two of the overseas AIs had not adopted other religions. You can also see the overall trend is growth but there are a few sawtooths where AIs convert to other religions or governments.

    Spoiler :

    Kandy ai.jpg


    This game makes me wonder - is it possible to win a quick game without Great Books? I don’t think I could have pulled it off even with full knowledge of the map, since it took Cartography to find the last three AIs. Perhaps if I had scored Goddess of the Harvest I could have had enough faith to get the Apostles rolling faster and maybe also converted the AIs on my continent to keep the full 24 tourism per relic. I guess this would also be possible on a similar lucky start on a Pangea map.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
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    I am confused. You are showing R&F games and while there is some interest there is also no surprises.
    Running theatre projects has always been a good one but it is now a question of how well can great artists be themed. All it takes is Russia to get 2 and not use them (typical) and it messes up your themes. Archaeological museums are far far better as the more you have, the better the theming.
    In GS I have noticed a lot more ski resort spamming.
    The musician has also become more important with better multipliers and if you are up there with multipliers you can easily solar/wind power.
    I am not really playing anymore but feel they have not really made it much slower as great writers were also a source of the oppositions culture. Culture in general seems not to be pumped well and rock bands come on early enough to win by pumping pure culture instead of relying on science with computers and resorts. It feels more like a pure cultural race, maybe some would call that a more pure cultural victory.
    I have not tested the flight tourism crush you can get with the likes of Egypt since GS but doing the maths in my head it seems still quite possible.
    Rock bands are just OP though, to be able to win a cultural victory purely with rock bands before T200 and without even being efficient about it was sad. Late game touism with all of its multipliers does overshadow writers and I am surprised by the lack of a heavy artefact push.
    You can pump walls all you like but until flight they mean little, but they are something.

    I am assuming the graphics are taken from the tourism lens? They are useful, just a shame they are not GS.
     
  6. Minou

    Minou Chieftain

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    Well I guess RF posts will be ignored though I personally like playing RF instead of GS due to my dislike of disasters, DF, and World Congress. I made these mostly to learn myself which things I was doing made a real impact on cultural victory and which are more “icing on the cake”. I try to play for speed and so win before Flight or Rock Bands.

    Anyway all my efforts were kind of wasted since they nerfed Great Writers invalidating my results (though I am glad they did). I will make my graphs for the current GOTM and see how things change in a post patch GS game.

    Charts were made with an excel spreadsheet. Somewhat tedious but it does help me personally because I better track open borders, government changes and religious conversions this way.
     
    Victoria likes this.

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