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Where'd the old players go?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Fish Man, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Sure. Only a few easy steps needed:

    1. Firaxis declares independence from 2K.
    2. Firaxis fires almost everyone.
    3. Firaxis brings back Soren and Bryan.
    4. The audience goes back to a more "demanding" stance in terms of quality, depth, challenge, AI.

    See? Easy.
     
  2. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    That settles it ;-)
     
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  3. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Well I've thought about beating my marathon space win on settler with Asoka instead of Darius. But testing indicates that Asoka can do a BC win on chieftain. One of these days ...
     
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  4. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    BTS is probably my most-played game. Lurking and occasionally posting here taught me a lot, and got me trying my hand at modding. When I fire up Steam, it’s the most likely thing I load up. But that only usually happens when I’m in bed with an illness. I guess it’s two things that’s drawn me away; I spend a lot more of my spare time painting Chaos Space Marines and assorted actors & props for Warhammer Quest DM’ing, and when I do online activity it’s on my tablet, which has left my laptop gathering dust. Ironically, I still regularly lurk here - but with my computer habits no longer putting me in front of a dock with a Civ IV launcher icon on it, an urge to game usually results in fetching up the painting tray or picking up the Switch and booting up Splatoon or Tetris or Zelda.

    (I don’t even particularly like BotW, but I’m determined to get the Master Quest goodies)
     
  5. CHEESE!

    CHEESE! On a long nostalgia trip

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    I'm back. I'd forgotten about Civ since 2013 (V had nowhere near the same replay value for me that BTS had, and so once I let it go I let go of all of it) but back in 2017 I got the itch again. Still playing this game I must have 5k+ hours on by now. It's the best.
     
  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    So many names bringing back memories. I hope everyone is doing well.

    I do still do Polycast with most of the rest of the crew (DanQ got married and passed lead Co-host to Canus), but that mostly covers Civ 6. I only play Civ 6 rarely myself, though that's good enough to be a "deity player" these days :p.

    The newer civs never quite capture the magic of 4 for me, in part due to their UI/mechanical issues but also simply that their design isn't as challenging in SP. I've bounced around all kinds of games since then. I put a ton of hours into EU 4, but now that's gutted from its DLC/bad patch practices. Did some HOMM stuff years ago. Lately I've been becoming reasonably solid at Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup and doing some Hollow Knight on the side. Little bit of CK2 in there too.

    I want to get back to making some videos but I need a new machine for that I think, this one is > 5 years old. Just need to get back to doing the research on the stuff I want to make it.

    I've forgot so much nuance of Civ 4. I could probably still beat emperor? I always did suck at Civ 4 micro and had to cheese culture, AP, or easy starts to win deity. I guess that difficulty did keep me around for quite a while back in the day, though I was a different kind of player in 2008-2013 than now.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  7. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    I still can't beat Deity regularly regardless of the VC :lol:
    That was my biggest problem testing V. Beat it on Deity the first time I played, not even sure how the game was played.
     
  8. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    TMIT, how much do you feel Civ6 borrowed from EU4 ? I've glanced over some Civ6 gameplay and the screen was covered with buttons of different types and layered information hidden behind layers of (probably non-essential) information. The elegance of early Civ iterations, where the tile output is the main information, seems to have been entirely lost.
    HOMM 3 is a great game for multiplayer. Still played in Holy Motherland of Russia by extremely skilled players. The best can plan hero movement, including chaining (i.e. transferring army from one to another and fighting along the way), like 3 turns in advance. The skill in combat is incredible, too : drawing stacks, nullifying retaliation, etc.
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    IMO they only borrowed a little, unless "general incompetence with the UI" can be "borrowed". But their UIs are broken in different ways. Both obscure mechanics, but EU 4 straight up lies in multiple instances, Civ 6 much less often. Civ 6 has issues with having information you need on a different window, EU 4 is a little better with that. Both have thousands and thousands of extra unnecessary clicks per game, but these originate from different sources (grant province/religious conversions in EU 4, city management/unit movement/viewing information in Civ 6).

    They obviously drew some inspirations, such as a "CB" mechanic, but they didn't do their homework there since war goals are still close to meaningless and there's no way to *compel* peace prior to completely eliminating someone.

    I never got close to what good MP players can do in HOMM. A few summers ago I did set the difficulty of all Shadow of Death expansion maps to "impossible" and was still able to win them, though one of the missions with Gem was incredibly obnoxious and required lots of hit and run even worse than the Crag Hack vs 3 castles one. I actually like 5 a lot too.
     
  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Phil, it'd be good to see you play a little IV now and then :D

    Civ and EUIV are very different games on the other hand, and I think those mechanics are a bit better suited to EU. Like you, I became a bit disenchanted with the DLC, taking a far longer break from the game than ever before. Hard part is there is always something new coming out before I can finish any on-going games, which generally for me are very long, and the BETA versions can be quite buggy. I actually played on the Mare Nostrum beta version for a long time, but it was full of bugs. I will play again at some point eventually, when I decide to actually bring the game current.
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    In my opinion, forts with ZoC are still in beta and it's perplexing that this isn't the widely held opinion considering almost nobody can actually state how they work reliably.

    The addition of .8 corruption just from having "too many territories", nerfing religious/humanist despite these being then 9th and 11th most picked groups respectively (by their own stats listed on the forum), leaving multiple top 5 groups untouched, and buffing trade companies "to give Europeans incentive to go there" were nails in the coffin for me. Present dev team doesn't know what it's doing. Elite players were already skipping religious conversions and already intentionally moving Asian capitals to Oceania or Europe ASAP just to use trade companies...and the lead designer thinks players "need a reason to make them"? WTF? Meanwhile holding any other land at all is now grossly penalized.

    It's a farce. I used to love playing that game but they effectively killed it. I'm more numb now than I was at say Civ 5 vanilla release, because I've seen this type of pattern too much. Better to just move on to other games that are enjoyable...but the strategy genre is pretty bad overall these days unless you like SC2 enough to still play it a lot. Given Blizzard's pattern since then I don't trust them either. This isn't late 90's/early 2000's Blizzard :(.
     
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  12. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    Large gaming companies are more interesting in expanding their market to as many casuals as possible than in building a balanced game. It's a sad thing to see happening to STRATEGY games. The thing is though, it's not that a game catered to a "hardcore" audience is inherently less fun to casuals, in fact it should be even more fun. It just seems like laziness / incompetence from devs isn't punished. Apparently how often you publish and how many pretty pictures you can put together has a far greater impact on sales than whether the game is good.
     
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  13. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    ^^ Indeed. I see it a bit like the film industry, which incidentally the games industry is trying to copy with all its heavy use of cutscenes and the like. You still get quality movies from time to time, but the vast majority are pretty empty affairs only meant to bring in as much money as feasible. That's the direction games are heading in as well, and it's sad to see. No wonder I barely buy any games any more. It's not worth it. I'd rather keep playing Civ 4 for the next 10 years than buy CoD 381 or any of the other zillion series out there with as much innovation as a mountain chain.

    It's why I really appreciate some of the independent games. You can virtually feel the love they put into the game. It's a breath of fresh air.

    And as you hint at, as long as they don't get punished for mass producing plain soulless crap, they'll keep producing stuff like that and roll in the dividends. We don't have to look far either, ofc :sad:
     
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  14. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    It's the Instant Gratification Age. Of course Strategy has no place in it. Nor anything else of real value. The old school "casuals" are not the same as the "new age casuals". :rolleyes:
     
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  15. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Darkest Dungeon is pretty fun.
     
  16. Civ Vicious

    Civ Vicious Chieftain

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    I've been going to these forums ever since the release of the CIVIII. Always a lurker. But I'm back playing CIV IV again. Something about CIV IV that always will bring me back. It's an excellent game. It's crazy that CIV III is nearly 20 years old.
     
  17. jatamixx

    jatamixx Chieftain

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    Man are you a Russian speaker?
    Fortunately for me, there's a champ streaming in English (Dave_hun) I'm spending quite some time over there :D
     
  18. djdazi180

    djdazi180 Chieftain

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    I'm only 16 years old, but I started watching my dad play after the release of BTS. Child-Me wanted to play that game as well! With always peace and 18 Civs of course! And control all of them! That's how I started playing at ~5 y/o, so I guess I'm an "older player" in that sense hehe. Have never been thinking about a Community though, but now I found it (more by accident than anything). This whole place, Lains games and Sullas AI Battles (which I do for quite some time now on my own, never thought anyone else would ever do something like this.).
     
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  19. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Even in the realm of AAA games there's a big quality differential depending on how the consumers act and how much competition there is. For example the gaming market is littered with shooters, so to make a successful one requires that a particular one really stands out.

    Civ gets marginal competition from Pdox and Creative Assembly...but none of these are directly identical genres. They're competition, in the way that McDonald's competes with Starbucks in terms of coffee sales, but not as direct as possible. And they each have their own issues. The strategy gaming market, for its part, will pre-order games even as the current ones have many shoddy features, so I don't anticipate a significant change unless we see a new competitor release a high quality game that upends everything.

    The older Civ games were outcompeted by their contemporary TBS competitors. HOMM 2 and 3 were both better than the Civs of their time, as were Warlords 2 and 3. But what's today's version of HOMM 3/Warlords 3? EU/CK/HOI? Lol no. Those games have some fun in them, but they're a lot more flawed.
     
  20. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    I don't mind Russian but no.
    I used to watch some Maretti. Iirc he lost some world champ finals against Dave. I guess Gomunguls is the big man now that Maretti's retired.
    To be fair, I've watched a lot more pro Starcraft (Broodwar - NukeTheStars era) than I did HOMM3 but it's a game that has class. Starcraft has this thing with real time that's puzzling.

    Now, well... other things.
     

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