Where's Israel?

[LL_LordOmega]

Yeah, let's take out Germany, France, England, et al., replace them with the EU, and see how that goes over. Maybe Rome and Greece to even though they're pretty strictly classical in Civ.

[edit]
Also, I'm pretty sure that things like "At least countries like the US created their own civilization. What did Israel do? Nothing. The land was already developed by the Palestinians. The land was given to them by the west. Their military and technology given to them. Pathetic." are reasonable grounds to assume that someone's being hostile.

Truth is often mistaken as hostility by the ignorant.

 

[StStutter]

Truth is often mistaken as hostility by the ignorant.

No it's not. Hostility replaces the truth for the ignorant.

 

[Lyoncet]

Truth is often mistaken as hostility by the ignorant.

Yes, because "What did Israel do? Nothing," is objective truth. As is "Pathetic." As is using a specifically-tailored (and really rotten to begin with) criterion for the sole purpose of engendering condemnation.

Also, insulting forum-members (calling them ignorant, for example) results in infractions. Just so you know.

 

[MacReady]

Ok, Ancient Israel, yes. Works like the Temple of Solomon at least proves that they did achieve great things.

People - check your facts: No archaeological evidence for Solomon's Temple has been found.

 

[imperialman]

True, but that doesn't change my argument. In civ there isn't, and probably won't ever be an EU civ.

In terms of countries, the US has the largest.

Crossed wires here. I wasn't meaning to suggest that the EU become a civ. I just wanted to point out to people that the US isn't the largest economy any more, nothing more than that. Sorry for phrasing it it badly.

 

[LL_LordOmega]

You just repeated what I said.

 

[StStutter]

You just repeated what I said.

You're really wearing my patience thin right now. You are either being intentionally irritating by refusing to converse unless insulting forum members or you don't understand english. Either way, let me introduce you to my little friend sarcasm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

 

[Lyoncet]

Oh I see; we're into one of those paradigms where the level of one's conviction has a measurable impact on the outside world to the point objective assessments becoming empirical fact. Troubling.

Also, if that's not enough, it's hard to say that someone isn't being hostile when they take a thread that's talking about adding ancient Israel as a civ* and use it to grandstand about how pathetic they think modern Israel is.

*

I'v been wondering why the past couple Civs (never played Civ2) left out Israel. They were quite the super power in ancient times and are pretty powerful again. Not to mention that King David is one of the most well known kings of all time and arguable one of the best. I mean I could easy see them competing with old rivals like Persia and Babylon. Any thoughts if we might see them in expansions? btw this is my 1st post ever, hi everyone.

 

[Bad Brett]

Do you disagree that America is a superpower? If so, I hope you're joking.

Of course not, but his post was so patriotic that I wanted to puke. Of course, America has a powerful military. I'm sure they have the power to blow the world up five times with nuclear bombs. But otherwise...

The Atom Bomb was developed by a german scientist named Albert Einstein, who eventually moved to the US. And this is pretty much what the country is about; Importing the best brains of the world and make them work for them. Of course, this is very smart. Take the best from other contries and store their own problems in ghettos were the people don't know how to vote. Americans like to call USA "The worlds greatest democracy", yet only about 50% of the people actually vote.

Typical american food is pizza and hamburgers, imported from european countries. As for american movies and music, it may be popular in Europe, but there 1,4 people living in another superpower, known as China, and I can tell you that the vast majority of those people won't know what Hollywood is. Most of the worlds electronic devices are manufactured in China, such as iPhones. China has developed new carrier busting missiles that hopefully will keep USA away from their waters.

The thing with many americans, is that they are so uneducated so that they don't know anything about for example chinese culture. This makes them believe that they are the only ones who are making music and producing movies in world.

Even in sports, they have "bought" their success. Most sprinters aren't of American orgin and take the NHL for example, which consist mostly of Canadian players.

America is like a giant marketplace, where people from all over the world come to make business, but in reality, the country has very little culture on it's own, except from hillbillys and patriotism.

Still, America plays an important part in history and should of course be in the game. And since the country really is a mix of everything else, you could always say that America actually represents <Insert any country>. So every time someone yells "Hey, why aren't **** in the game?", you could always answer "They are, they are a part of America".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

Many educated americans are actually ashamed of being a part of the US and I would say that they have their reasons. I heard of a band who claimed they were canadians when they toured in Europe just because they were so ashamed. And I would too.

 

[LL_LordOmega]

Yes, because "What did Israel do? Nothing," is objective truth. As is "Pathetic." As is using a specifically-tailored (and really rotten to begin with) criterion for the sole purpose of engendering condemnation.

Also, insulting forum-members (calling them ignorant, for example) results in infractions. Just so you know.

Incessant use of sarcasm is also a mark of ignorance.

 

[Lyoncet]

America is like a giant marketplace, where people from all over the world come to make business, but in reality, the country has very little culture on it's own, except from hillbillys and patriotism.

Um, what?

The thing with many americans, is that they are so uneducated so that they don't know anything about for example chinese culture. This makes them believe that they are the only ones who are making music and producing movies in world.

Wait now&#8230;

Many educated americans are actually ashamed of being a part of the US and I would say that they have their reasons. I heard of a band who claimed they were canadians when they toured in Europe just because they were so ashamed. And I would too.

Ah my eyes!!!!! Yes, there are true things in here, but 1. why did this post suddenly go to "Americans should be ashamed" other than to be inflammatory and 2. why are we setting out the dichotomy (even if it was unintentional) that if Americans aren't ashamed to be American they're uneducated?

Seriously yes the USA's got its fair share of jingoism, but this is just so far in the opposite direction it's painful to look at.

 

[Lyoncet]

Incessant use of sarcasm is also a mark of ignorance.

1) No it's not
2) Once &#8800; incessant
3) No it's not

In closing, how about if I counter with something similar: "making overbroad and unsubstantiated statements about the psyche of one's opponents is a mark of desperation."

See what I did there?

 

[Sonereal]

Wow...

Wait... You aren't serious, right?

If anything, the US is the only nation on the planet with force projection capabilities thanks in part to the USN. Russia isn't ever going to get there again. Brazil and China are getting up there, especially China.

Of course, to disprove the American military/diplomatic superpower idea, we're still tied down in two wars half-way across the globe.

Edit: It took me forever to think of this stuff so I got ninja'd.

In any case, the US isn't all awesome.

 

[StStutter]

Of course not, but his post was so patriotic that I wanted to puke. Of course, America has a powerful military. I'm sure they have the power to blow the world up five times with nuclear bombs. But otherwise...

The Atom Bomb was developed by a german scientist named Albert Einstein, who eventually moved to the US. And this is pretty much what the country is about; Importing the best brains of the world and make them work for them. Of course, this is very smart. Take the best from other contries and store their own problems in ghettos were the people don't know how to vote. Americans like to call USA "The worlds greatest democracy", yet only about 50% of the people actually vote.

Typical american food is pizza and hamburgers, imported from european countries. As for american movies and music, it may be popular in Europe, but there 1,4 people living in another superpower, known as China, and I can tell you that the vast majority of those people won't know what Hollywood is. Most of the worlds electronic devices are manufactured in China, such as iPhones. China has developed new carrier busting missiles that hopefully will keep USA away from their waters.

The thing with many americans, is that they are so uneducated so that they don't know anything about for example chinese culture. This makes them believe that they are the only ones who are making music and producing movies in world.

Even in sports, they have "bought" their success. Most sprinters aren't of American orgin and take the NHL for example, which consist mostly of Canadian players.

America is like a giant marketplace, where people from all over the world come to make business, but in reality, the country has very little culture on it's own, except from hillbillys and patriotism.

Still, America plays an important part in history and should of course be in the game. And since the country really is a mix of everything else, you could always say that America actually represents <Insert any country>. So every time someone yells "Hey, why aren't **** in the game?", you could always answer "They are, they are a part of America".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

Many educated americans are actually ashamed of being a part of the US and I would say that they have their reasons. I heard of a band who claimed they were canadians when they toured in Europe just because they were so ashamed. And I would too.

Where his is extremely patriotic, yours is also fairly bious against America. We were only discussing the validity of including the US in a civ game. We were looking at the country in civ terms. I agree with him and with you.

America is a country which has acocmplished great things, but this doesn't make the people or their way of life necessarily any better than anyone else's.

Their culture is the most influential in the world by far in my opinions (which of course does not make it superior). No other nation's culture has seeped into other countries in modern times as America's. Fast food, business models, hollywood movies, american pop music, etc.

I don't agree with a lot of American ideals, but nevertheless they are a powerful, influential civilization.

Oh and it isn't so much that educated American are ashamed to be American but that the rest of the world has become so anti-America (understandable on a lot of counts) that educated Americans are smart enough not to give away their nationality only to be discriminated upon despite having done nothing wrong themselves.

 

[compute]

The Atom Bomb was developed by a german scientist named Albert Einstein, who eventually moved to the US. And this is pretty much what the country is about; Importing the best brains of the world and make them work for them.

J. Robert Oppenheimer and all the other Scientists on the Manhattan project actually.
Einstein was one of those who laid the grounds for the necessary theories though.
However you are kind of right in that both America and Russia snagged as many German scientists as they could. "Our Germans are better than your Germans" and so on. Werher von Braun being a prominent reason for many of the developments in American rocket science.
Same reason why Shir&#333; Ishii got a deal rather than getting executed, he had something they wanted. (i'm rather surprised Mengele didn't get that as well, but then he was more well known)

Many educated americans are actually ashamed of being a part of the US and I would say that they have their reasons. I heard of a band who claimed they were canadians when they toured in Europe just because they were so ashamed. And I would too.

Not really necessary i'd say. I'm no big fan of the American governments actions (or even the reasons coming from it's supporters) but even among the hardcore haters you'd have trouble finding folks who'd be rude to you personally over it. (unless you count stupid questions as rude)

 

[LL_LordOmega]

Oh I see; we're into one of those paradigms where the level of one's conviction has a measurable impact on the outside world to the point objective assessments becoming empirical fact. Troubling.

Also, if that's not enough, it's hard to say that someone isn't being hostile when they take a thread that's talking about adding ancient Israel as a civ* and use it to grandstand about how pathetic they think modern Israel is.

*

Might I also point out that I have never seen such pompous and wordy writing. I can state my opinion on Israel, supported by what facts I know. This is not against the rules. If you disagree, you can join the discussion in an intelligent manner. Perhaps give some counter evidence as to why modern Israel has not been almost completely created and supported by the British Empire and the US. So far, you have just whined and spewed out sarcastic statements. Also, you've proven your inability to count.

 

[compute]

Of course, to disprove the American military/diplomatic superpower idea, we're still tied down in two wars half-way across the globe.

They're not so much Wars as occupations at this point. With the occasional struggle from the natives and native factions.
Guess it was necessary to keep the war economy alive. All that Lithium, Oil, rebuilding contracts and the Transafghan Pipeline might help stimulate the dollar.

 

[Infiltrator]

What a mess of a thread.

 

[Lyoncet]

Might I also point out that I have never seen such pompous and wordy writing. I can state my opinion on Israel, supported by what facts I know. This is not against the rules. If you disagree, you can join the discussion in an intelligent manner. Perhaps give some counter evidence as to why modern Israel has not been almost completely created and supported by the British Empire and the US. So far, you have just whined and spewed out sarcastic statements. Also, you've proven your inability to count.

Hey, now we've even got some good old ad hominems ("you're so wordy, you're whining, you can't count," none of which both true and relevant) straw men ("how about you prove that Israel isn't propped up" when I never said that it wasn't), and some good old-fashioned ignoring most of what I said (like it's hard to say that someone isn't being hostile when they take a thread that's talking about adding ancient Israel as a civ* and use it to grandstand about how pathetic they think modern Israel is, which you then happened to go right back and do again without missing a beat).


That aside, I'm still befuzzled by your sarcasm count.

Yeah, let's take out Germany, France, England, et al., replace them with the EU, and see how that goes over. Maybe Rome and Greece to even though they're pretty strictly classical in Civ.

Not actually sarcasm. Saying "let's see how that goes over" is similar, but not sarcastic (it's more akin to begging the question). Also had nothing to do with this topic.

Yes, because "What did Israel do? Nothing," is objective truth. As is "Pathetic." As is using a specifically-tailored (and really rotten to begin with) criterion for the sole purpose of engendering condemnation.

Count: 1 Feel free to track down other instances of me using sarcasm in this conversation. Unless you're going to treat one sarcastic account as three instances of sarcasm, in which case we disagree on accounting but certainly doesn't "[prove an] inability to count."


Also, I've gotta agree with Infiltrator. This thread's well overdue for some good moderator-ing (not that I'm totally innocent either). But there's some tussles that are just too promising to ignore!

 

[StStutter]

I'd say ignore him Lyoncet. He's grasping for things to argue about and is planning on twisting his own argument to keep it going at all costs.