Which Affinity do you think you'll try first? (the unimformed gut reaction edition)

[Nick31]

hahaha, this is why Harmony sounds awesome.

It makes me curious though... all this talk as of late has been about war and killing. Has Firaxis divulged any information on how a more peaceful Civ game would play out?

I just got an idea. What if there was a mode in the game that allowed for extreme amounts of hostile alien life forms? This way, it would force the players in the game to work together just to survive until the mid-to-late game. It would be an interesting dynamic.

That's an interesting tactical question. Kind of like if an advisor popped up on Turn 40 and said something like: "this planet has an unusually high number of hostile forms, you may wish to pursue alliances with incoming groups."

This is its own thread-topic, though, along the lines of whether CIV:BE will be tactically complex even if less dense then BNW. In the PC Gamer interview they said that landing on different environmental land could yield big gameplay decisions. As, of course, would the Seed options at set-up. I think a lot of CIV players would settle for a less dense game that nonetheless had high replayability because of high tactical nuance. Particularly if they're right in saying they've learned a lot from flawed AI combat in BNW.

This was in the Gamespot piece:

"While this rule did create some interesting new strategies for players, the game’s AI had trouble executing those same strategies with any consistency. As an example, I often saw the AI push its archers to the front line, ahead of their sword-wielding brothers in arms, only to get slaughtered. When asked about this, McDonough explained, "We've had the opportunity to do a great deal of work and learn from the successes that Civilization V had with its AI to make AI suited for [Beyond Earth]. We’re confident it’s going to do a great job. We’re working hard on it and the war simulations we’re running in our test games are already pretty crazy and fun."

Crossing fingers.

 

[Bandobras Took]

Lady Deirdre Forever!

Harmony.

 

[Lyoncet]

I think you're confusing the concepts below the surface of Harmony and Supremacy deary.

The clue is in the word "harmony", where the planet and you live harmoniously together in a mutually beneficial and equal relationship. You don't bend it to your will, you take it to dinner and gradual build up to the point where you can ask it to combine with your DNA to slay your enemies.

Semantics.

If I have an army riding sandworms into battle, I don't care who's ostensibly in charge.

 

[Louis XXIV]

How is Purity winning here ? Granted, Imy first game is probably going to be Purity because it looks like the simplest of the three, but it's not sexy at all, I'm surprised people seem to be excited by it.

Well, you're playing them first so you're contributing to this. You don't have to think something is sexy to want to play it first. In fact, it's the lack of sexiness that appeals to me. I feel it's the best for appreciating the game on its own terms (in other words, it's as close to neutral as one can get).

 

[Rebel Fighter]

That's an interesting tactical question. Kind of like if an advisor popped up on Turn 40 and said something like: "this planet has an unusually high number of hostile forms, you may wish to pursue alliances with incoming groups."

This is its own thread-topic, though, along the lines of whether CIV:BE will be tactically complex even if less dense then BNW. In the PC Gamer interview they said that landing on different environmental land could yield big gameplay decisions. As, of course, would the Seed options at set-up. I think a lot of CIV players would settle for a less dense game that nonetheless had high replayability because of high tactical nuance. Particularly if they're right in saying they've learned a lot from flawed AI combat in BNW.

This was in the Gamespot piece:

"While this rule did create some interesting new strategies for players, the game’s AI had trouble executing those same strategies with any consistency. As an example, I often saw the AI push its archers to the front line, ahead of their sword-wielding brothers in arms, only to get slaughtered. When asked about this, McDonough explained, "We've had the opportunity to do a great deal of work and learn from the successes that Civilization V had with its AI to make AI suited for [Beyond Earth]. We’re confident it’s going to do a great job. We’re working hard on it and the war simulations we’re running in our test games are already pretty crazy and fun."

Crossing fingers.

The problem though is that I don't want CBE to become just another war game. While I thought the culture victories in Civ 5 were kind of ******ed, the game was still dynamic enough to make diplomacy a thing that matters with other players (I'm speaking about multiplayer here). So far, what we've heard about CBE seems to highly encourage all-out warfare, which just doesn't seem logical at all considering that ALL THE FACTIONS ARE COMING FROM THE SAME PLANET.

 

[KevinLancaster]

That's what happened in Alpha Centauri though. That's also what happened in history. That's what's happening now. We hate each other.

EDIT: They should have some troll victory condition where you just blow everything up. Like the entire planet.

 

[Arrowstorm]

That's what happened in Alpha Centauri though. That's also what happened in history. That's what's happening now. We hate each other.

EDIT: They should have some troll victory condition where you just blow everything up. Like the entire planet.

Wouldn't be much of a victory for anybody though.

I voted Harmony, because I like the ideology behind it, but I'm not a fan of being Liberty-style expansive, so Purity might be more my style, being afraid of anything that isn't myself and blowing it up if it comes within 10 hexes of my borders. The whole Skynet thing with Supremacy sounds pretty cool too though.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The problem though is that I don't want CBE to become just another war game. While I thought the culture victories in Civ 5 were kind of ******ed, the game was still dynamic enough to make diplomacy a thing that matters with other players (I'm speaking about multiplayer here). So far, what we've heard about CBE seems to highly encourage all-out warfare, which just doesn't seem logical at all considering that ALL THE FACTIONS ARE COMING FROM THE SAME PLANET.

Well you do seem to have 2 peaceful victories open (Your Affinity Victory and The Contact Victory)
and if they find a way to Meld peaceful play with competition (ala Tourism and Ideological pressure or City States and World congress proposals in BNW).. those can make multiplayer diplomacy worthwhile (ie people can hamper me even without going to war)

Then you have some issues with diplomacy that need to be worked out
ie (your neighbor is irritating the worms... this causes collateral damage to you)
add the effect of affinities, the possibility of trade/research agreements or other peace benefits, etc.
And diplomacy can be complicated enough.

Of course for any TRUE Peaceful victory, there needs to be a possibility of a shared win with multiple players (some way to join 2 or more players together into one similar to civ4?s permanent alliance... it would have to be a very Costly process).

 

[Nick31]

The problem though is that I don't want CBE to become just another war game. While I thought the culture victories in Civ 5 were kind of ******ed, the game was still dynamic enough to make diplomacy a thing that matters with other players (I'm speaking about multiplayer here). So far, what we've heard about CBE seems to highly encourage all-out warfare, which just doesn't seem logical at all considering that ALL THE FACTIONS ARE COMING FROM THE SAME PLANET.

Well, to be fair, the world ALWAYS needs more beautiful, turn-based, role-play war games

But, I think given that this is a bit XCom influenced and is by not a core Civilization game, an increase in tactics (both warring and otherwise) would be a fun thing. The key is variability to these tactics.

For instance, if they can actually get the "Seed" dynamics straight, i.e. choosing what core components to take with you into Turn 1, this could be a brilliant thing. If there emerges a "core" strategy like 2 colonists, 2 workers, 2 marines, and 2 culture cubes, or small variations on that like 3 marines or 3 cubes, then I'll be less impressed.

On the other hand, if you have serious options at the Seed level (and different options available as per different Affinity choices) then I'd be thrilled. If you can do a Supremacy start with something like 4 Research labtechs, 2 culture cubes, and colonist and a worker, and tech your way quickly to an web-upgrade, and come up against a Harmony start who had dramatically different options, and then have your advantages vary depending on what terrain you landed on, and other things.... but not necessarily always be better, then I'd be very happy.

 

[sendos]

I voted too early to decide. The last thing I want is to regret the choice I made because a particular ideology is UP. Hopefully, the game has the balance right.

 

[Nick Carpathia]

Can't see how aliens can demand things if contact is one of the end games. Maybe nonsentient life demands things? lead a herd of cowlizards to water? Quests seem to be a fun minigame in civ5 and the developers were quite proud of it, so I guess they wanted to keep that mechanic even tho there are no citystates.

Willing to bet that the first expansion will allow playing aliens, like alien crossfire. If contact is a end game, I wonder how this would change that victory. and as I've read there is no UN or global council at all. That may come in an expansion too, they have to save some shelved ideas for later after all.

look at me, already talking expansions!

You're already met alien life. Contact victory must therefore be about meeting intelligent alien life.

 

[KevinLancaster]

They probably wouldn't want to contact us.

 

[Traejun]

Harmony by the way, if only to live out my fantasies of being God Emperor

If there was a like button, I'd hit it a million times.

The Emperor Protects

 

[Civ'ed]

But, I think given that this is a bit XCom influenced and is by not a core Civilization game, an increase in tactics (both warring and otherwise) would be a fun thing. The key is variability to these tactics.

How is this XCOM influenced?

• If it's because Firaxis made both games, Konami made both Castlevania and Metal Gear and neither is influenced by the other
• If it's because aliens, that's just silly. Is Invasion of The Body Snatchers inspired by XCOM because Aliens? no.
• and finally, if it's because alien invasio0ns and space mareehns, XCOM was about aliens taking their spaceships and flying to earth, whereas BE is humans taking their spaceships and flying to an unindentified planet.

I really don't see how XCOM influenced this in any way.

 

[Fabio1701]

How is this XCOM influenced?

• If it's because Firaxis made both games, Konami made both Castlevania and Metal Gear and neither is influenced by the other
• If it's because aliens, that's just silly. Is Invasion of The Body Snatchers inspired by XCOM because Aliens? no.
• and finally, if it's because alien invasio0ns and space mareehns, XCOM was about aliens taking their spaceships and flying to earth, whereas BE is humans taking their spaceships and flying to an unindentified planet.

I really don't see how XCOM influenced this in any way.

Yes, I don't think it will be XCOM influenced much for the above reasons. However there has been talk of the unit workshop, and XCOM has a relatively user friendly unit upgrade shop, so they may have taken lessons learned from that. (The one in SMAC had a step learning curve.)

Besides that I think there will be a cameo, like in BNW. Maybe one of the early units will be XCOM unit. Just for fun but not really implying that it is the same universe.

 

[Nick31]

http://www.polygon.com/2014/4/12/56...th-trailer-screenshots-announcement-sid-meier
"You'll see the same thing in Xcom. Until the very end of Xcom you don't realize why they are there..."

I took this quote to mean that they had an eye on Xcom. How much influence remains to be seen, obviously.

 

[dapperbandit]

Out of the three, Supremacy and Purity are the most appealing. Harmony...it sounds too much like the lovechild of hippies and religious fanatics, an odd mix for sure. And despite the name "Harmony", in principle this Affinity seems the most aggressive to me. Tampering with genes and DNA and weaponising alien life, meanwhile Purity, who strike me as intrinsically defensive, build big walls to protect themselves from this strange world and Supremacy are too busy themselves putting brains in vats.

Between Purity and Supremacy, the latter has more ambition and scope which I admire, but lacks the warmth of humanity that survives with Purity. What happens to art and music in Supremacy? I don't imagine culture plays a big part in their world.

 

[Lheim]

I'm so cautiously optimistic about Civ:BE.

The three affinities seem like they capture the essence of the factions from the original SMAC. They're generating a great deal of back and forth discussion among players here, which seems like the hallmark of a great 'true' moral conundrum: there's no obvious good or bad, but lordie can people get zealous over their choice.

For myself, I like the -ideal- of harmony, but the idea of genetically re-writing humanity into god knows what brings on shades of Brave New World and that's unsettling. Purity is attractive - terraforming isn't a job for the faint-hearted, but also frankly seems xenophobic; a huge waste of the unique life that's already on the new planet.

So.. supremacy for me, at least for the first go around. I've read some frankly *daft* transhumanist sci-fi, but there's still potential there.

 

[Fabio1701]

You have no idea how long I wrestled in my mind about whether to refer to the planet in the game as Planet.

That is exactly what I am doing. Every time I read 'the planet' in an interview I do a double take because in my head it was just Planet.

 

[KevinLancaster]

Looks like we're going to have an affinity war when the game launches. Hope we see a bunch of servers with players duking it out on release day.