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Which Aggressive Civ is the best?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Vonreuter, Jan 28, 2006.

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Which Aggressive Civ is the best?

  1. Aztecs, Montezuma (Spiritual, Jaguar Warrior)

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  2. France, Napoleon (Industrious, Musketeer)

    18 vote(s)
    14.4%
  3. Greece, Alexander (Philosophical, Phalanx)

    8 vote(s)
    6.4%
  4. Inca, Huayna Capac (Financial, Quechua)

    43 vote(s)
    34.4%
  5. Japan, Tokugawa (Organized, Samurai)

    31 vote(s)
    24.8%
  6. Mongolia, Genghis Khan (Expansive, Keshik)

    9 vote(s)
    7.2%
  7. Mongolia, Kublai Khan (Creative, Keshik)

    14 vote(s)
    11.2%
  1. Vonreuter

    Vonreuter Warlord

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    154
    So which Aggressive Civ is the best for winning the game, in the long run or in a swift rush? Please feel free to present your reasons.
     
  2. alco75

    alco75 Warlord

    Joined:
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    146
    Location:
    England
    It depends exactly what you mean by 'best', but Tokugawa gets my vote as Organized is arguably the best 'aggressive' trait in the first place.
     
  3. SlipperyJim

    SlipperyJim Prince

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Yeah, there's a nice synergy between Aggressive & Organized. Aggressive helps you conquer a big empire, and Organized keeps you from going broke on maintenance costs. Aggressive/Organized/Financial would probably be better, but that would be cheating. ;)

    It's also certainly helpful for Tokugawa that his Samurai are an impressive UU. Properly used, Macemen can be very dangerous ... and the Samurai are upgraded Macemen. :hammer:
     
  4. Silver Marmot

    Silver Marmot Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    235
    If I'm going for conquest or domination I'll choose Tokugawa.
     
  5. LordTerror

    LordTerror Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
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    Against the AI, HC is probably the best because:

    1) Quechua's can easily beat 1 deity(or easier) AI or 2 noble(or easier) AIs. In longer games (more than 1 AI on deity or more than 2 AIs on noble), the added capitals and reduced number of oponents can help give you an advantage against the remaining AIs.

    2) In a 1v1 where are all you care about is score and/or winning, there is no subtitute for a Quechua rush. It's the simplest (and probably most reliable) way to win on deity mode.

    3) In a standard-ish game, Aggressive/Quechua can be nice to take a capital (at less cost than a settler!) and Financial can help you get a nice tech advantage for later. Also, HC can start researching Bronze Working or a religion on the first turn (because of his starting techs).

    Against a human, Quechuas generally aren't very good, though.
     
  6. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
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    1,898
    Inca, easily.
     
  7. InFlux5

    InFlux5 King

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    617
    Down with the Inca lovers!

    But seriously, maybe they are the best Agg civ. I'm just sick of them being flavor of the month.

    I picked Kublai Khan. Organized (Tokugawa) may offer better synergy, but I love the way Creative and Agg work together. Every newly-conquered city begins asserting cultural influence as soon as the resistance ends, and Great Artists are easier to come by giving you more chances to immediately end resistance. Basically to me Creative and Agg are the ultimate expansionist combo - you can gobble up land through culture or aggression throughout the entire game.
     
  8. Corbeau

    Corbeau Jack of All Trades

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
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    352
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    To-KU, To-KU, To-KU!

    The synergy between traits is one reason I'd go with Toku, but there's also the fact that Samurai beat out everything else in cool factor. :)
     
  9. niffweed17

    niffweed17 Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
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    Location:
    Ahí en la ciudad
    agressive is a really interesting trait because it has an interesting dual effect with several other traits.

    tokugawa (agg, org)- this is the absolute best you can get for a warmongering civ. cheap maintenance means no end to the slaughter.

    kublai (agg, cre)- this is a really interesting one. it doesn't have the great effect that organized does, but it does allow you to basically ignore cultural development altogether.

    capac (agg, fin)- this one is less useful in terms of warmongering, as it penalizes undeveloped cities more than large cities with cottages. nonetheless, it brings in more gold and more research, allowing better troops faster and quicker expansion. oh yes, and then there's the matter of the quechua.

    napoleon (agg, ind)- a nice mix of builder and warmonger. can get cheap bonuses from wonders while not building all that many standard buildings, allowing for more military development.

    montezuma (agg, spi)- jaguars are nice because they dont require iron. other than that, there's nothing special.

    alexander (agg, phi)- IMO phalanxes are sort of worthless, hill defense bonuses are limited and they take a back seat to axemen and swordsmen. the agg and phi traits have nothing to do with each other at all.

    genghis (agg, exp)- ok, this is the one where i'm really lost. why is this a useful trait combo? the expansive health bonus is absolutely worthless for a warmongering civ. the keshik is nice, but i'll take kublai anyday.
     
  10. slightlymarxist

    slightlymarxist Comrade

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2001
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Sweden
    Voted Ghengis Khan, though Kublai comes a close second.

    The deal with Expansive is that you don't have to waste early production on aqueducts to keep your cities growing, which means more units. Happiness isn't a problem once you switch to Hereditary rule.

    Inca is great for early rushes, but I'd rather get copper and axemen. As for the extra commerce, I just beeline to Alphabet and trade away techs the AI doesn't research. Then I get State Property, and scrap my towns.
     
  11. DarkSchneider

    DarkSchneider King

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    Burlington, VT
    Against the comp, Inca is easily the best. Free starting religion, one less rival to worry about, and if you end up on some deserted island, you still get to own the Barbarians. Oh yeah, and the best of the traits, financial.
     
  12. Grimz101

    Grimz101 King

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
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    972
    Location:
    London, England
    capac is nice vrs ai sucks vrs multiplayer, just do a little rush take a civilization or two out of building space, then cottage up till macemen or marines (marines if you took over so much space it sent it took you ages to get back financally for another conquest :p.

    toku is good in continents nice in multiplayer (if you get that far) and owns ai :)

    rest are okay i guess :p

    where is julius and the pret rush lmao owns in single and multiplayer :)
     
  13. Vonreuter

    Vonreuter Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
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    Today, after trying out Mongolia, I decided to vote for Kublai Khan. The Keshik horsemen are amazing, especially in rough terrain, as they can ignore terrain penalties for movement. This means that your Keshiks can be everywhere at once.

    I took down five Japanese cities in quick succession after mustering my first Golden Horde. Poor Tokugawa (my most hated CPU opponent) didn't even have Walls in his cities, so they were easy prey for my Keshiks. I did lose many units to Tokugawa's archers (even with 75% odds), but I managed to keep up the momentum, because it didn't take long for my reserves to march to the front line from my cities. Before the attack, I had made a road that my reserves followed. Because they were Keshiks, even the rough jungle around Tokugawa's cities didn't slow my troops much. I felt like I was waging a Mongolian version of Blitzkrieg. It would've been another war with the Roman Praetorians, for example, or anything else that moves slowly. Keshiks proved to be a very powerful UU in attack.

    The choice between Genghis and Kublai wasn't difficult. I tried both, and while Genghis was able to increase the size of his cities much more quickly and thus increase productivity, I liked the way Kublai's Creative trait allowed me to quickly assimilate the new provinces to the gentle fold of my iron fist empire. Cultural expansion may take an annoyingly long time in underdeveloped cities without Obelisks and Theatres (or Stonehenge, which takes a bit too much time to build for an early war strategy). I also predict that the Creative trait will keep my cities from revolting and flipping. I am somewhat behind in science, so this may be a problem in the future, but my future is looking bright with this many cities, good military power, and half the continent under my control. (The other half is populated by the Aztecs, Egyptians, and the French.)

    The Golden Horde is not called the Scourge of God for nothing!
     
  14. Vonreuter

    Vonreuter Warlord

    Joined:
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    Grimz: Julius is not Aggressive, despite the fact that the Romans (and some others) are suitable for an aggressive early expansion. This poll is only about civilizations (sic) with the Aggressive trait.

    As to the question, what "the best" means, I kept it open so that you might choose your own reasons why you like this or that Aggressive civ. Thus, "the best" might mean "the best combination of traits", "the meanest UU", or just "the coolest" or "my personal preference".
     
  15. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    France is underrated I think. I'm not saying it's the best, but the musketeer is a pretty damn good unit since you can stack it with Cavalry (whatever kind of horse unit you have at the time) and attack really fast. Horse/musketeer stacks are pretty damn cool.

    The only downside I really see to the unit is that Riflemen aren't far off at all... but I see that as a game design issue, there are tons of problems like that, like the cannon is another one.

    But anyway, the best are definately the Greeks. Why? because... they're Greek. :king:
     
  16. jamesbond587

    jamesbond587 Chieftain

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    Jan 22, 2006
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    lol, since when is france an agressive nation? when was the last time they WON a war?
     
  17. slightlymarxist

    slightlymarxist Comrade

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    Since about all of its history, up to and including WW1.

    Their latest long winning streak was under, yes you guessed it, Napoleon.
     
  18. gastro

    gastro Chieftain

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    France has won wars! France totally won the french revolution.
     
  19. Arms Longfellow

    Arms Longfellow Warlord

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    Make fun of France all you want but Napoleon pretty much took on every European super power and took them to SCHOOL.

    For a while ...
     
  20. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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