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Which alternative Egyptian leader(s) would you like to see?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by halfhalfharp, Jan 21, 2018.

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Which alternative Egyptian leader would you like to have?

  1. Hatshepsut

    13 vote(s)
    39.4%
  2. Rameses II

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  3. Nefertiti/Akenaten

    9 vote(s)
    27.3%
  4. others (please specify in your reply)

    11 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. Sneferu

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  6. Amenhotep III

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
  7. Thutmose III

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
  8. Narmer/Menes

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    And here are also a few designs of their leader abilities.

    Spoiler Hatshepsut (Golden era + wonder :

    Leader ability: Djeser-Djseru
    -Wonders construction are 15 percent faster in golden era. Every finished wonder provides extra +2 Golden:c5goldenage: era points at once.
    -Each international trade route to a new target city gives +2 golden era point too.

    (And I think we should add some ancient era and classical era great engineers too)

    Notes: Djeser-Djeseru refers to her burial temple at the valley of kings, a magnificent temple built by her brilliant engineer Ineni. She was a pharaoh who established an era of great stability.

    Play style: She can maintain herself in constant golden eras with trade routes and snowball the wonder building with golden age points.

    Capital: Thebes/Waset



    Spoiler Rameses II (wonder building on top of combats :

    Leader ability: Glory of Ramessum
    -Combat victory provides :c5production:production bonus to wonder constructions in process, equal to the strength:c5war: of defeated units.

    Notes: Based on his self-glorification through a massive construction of wonders after the battle of Qadesh

    Playstyle: A super wonder builder, but not the passive bonus given-for-granted in Civ 5. This time he must actively kill something to gain a faster boost in wonder building, which is something Egypt is already good at. This bonus will be available in all time so that slightly covers Egypt's weakness in building later game wonders.


    Capital: Pi-Ramessess



    Spoiler Akhenaten/Nefertiti (Religious focus) :

    Leader ability: Religious revolution
    -Inquisition reduces influence of religions:c5faith: that affect this city, and exerts religious influence to cities within 10 tiles. ( equal to defeating a religious unit of another religions)
    -May buy settlers with faith.

    Playstyle: They can play both aggressively and defensively in religious route. The aggressive strategy is like placing a new city near your enemy and then keep using inquisitiors to exert huge conversion pressure to neighboring cities.

    Capital: Amarna/ Akhenaten

    Spoiler Sneferu (bonus on resources harvesting for wonder building) :

    Leader ability: Stone Mover
    -Pillaging a bonus resource in a foreign land gives bonus to the capital and cities building wonders, equal to harvesting the resource.
    -Removing his own resources, woods or rainforest gives a 30% more yield than normal.

    Notes: Sneferu, besides his most noticeable legacy of massive pyramid buildings, was a raider of his neighbors, taking tones of resources for his constructions. It is said that he moved more bricks and stones more than any pharaohs, so I think this name fits his ability and his legacy.

    Playstyle: He is more flexible than merely a wonder builder, although the main focus is still wonder building, something that marks his rule. The bonus from pillaging is equal to a harvesting, something that can also boost the gold and food other than wonder building. The bonus from removing his own resources also grant him an edge in developing cities from early game.



    Spoiler Amenhotep III (alliance bonus) :

    Leader ability: Amarna Letters
    -He can form alliance as early as the civic "Early empire". But the alliance before civil service has a shorter duration.
    -His allies share the amenity from luxuries that he only has a single copy, each shared luxury pushes the alliance level faster on his side.

    Notes: The amrana letters, diplomatic letters sent to kings and rulers over the Central-Asia, were showing a strong connection between Egypt and the rest of the ancient world. Although the letters were "Amarna" (as they were preserved in Amarna) by name, the earliest letters and the alliances started from his reign.
    His successors did not have that time to care the in-flooding letters as they were busy at the religious reform.



    Which will you favor the most? And what makes you choose them?

    Edit: Updated Sneferu and Amenhotep III, and new design for Hatshepsut
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  2. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    other: Djoser, Senefru, Senusret III, Amenemhet III, Seti I, Amenhotep III, Psamtik II and Amasis would all be preferable to the other three for me.
    I‘d prefer Akhenaten if your three choices, but not in combination with Nefertiti for a shared leader screen. And with a more interesting ability, I think I suggested some a few months ago...

    Wrong forum by the way.
     
  3. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    Ooops, sorry.

    That's an "or" actually, but it will also be an amusing scene if they appear in couple.

    Sure, for what reason do you like to see them? I know Djoser and Senefru were pyramids builders. The others were unfamiliar to me.
     
  4. Cerilis

    Cerilis Not Warlord

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    Akhenaten, ofc.

    Nihihi.
     
  5. The Kingmaker

    The Kingmaker Alexander

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    Akhenaten would be interesting. Ramses is suitably epic, if obvious. Why not Khufu? Or Amenhotep III?
     
  6. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    Frist, I like some novelty for civs that abound with good leader options. I don't see a reason to reuse Ramses or Hatshepsut. Second, I'd like to have a non-New Kingdom and non-Ptolemaic leader for once (which didn't hinder me from including two of these). All the ones I've listed belong a group of undoubtedly successful and distinguished Pharaohs.

    • Djoser is pretty much the creator of the Egyptian Kingdom as we think of it and could go towards any of building, faith, culture, infrastructure, wealth, or military - so pretty much an allrounder. To give him a boost in the beginning that allows him to grow to an empire fast seems the best idea.
    • Senefru would surely be a builder. If I think about an ability, he is a bit unnecessary, since he probably would produce wonders faster (he build 3 very large Pyramids after all) - and that is already Egypt's ability.
    • Senusret III would make a good militaristic leader. I'm not too big a fan of a purely militaristic leader for Egypt, but I think he appeals to some people as that. In combination with a trade bonus or a defensive bonus (both would fit) he could be cool. Easy to model since there are many characteristic statues, especially of his later years.
    • Amenemhet III seems likely to strife for culture and wealth. His rule is seen as the top of the middle kingdom. Thanks to his father, he didn't have to fight much, so he concentrated on generating enormous wealth and the time is usually seen as a golden age of literature and culture. Lots of characteristic statues.
    • Amenhotep III is an allrounder again, but he's a prime choice for a leader with a diplomatic focus - despite the obvious builder and culture that come to mind when thinking about him. Generally seen as one of the 'top dogs' of the country's long history. Maybe he could get alliance levels faster? Or alliances in general? Or unique diplomatic options?
    • Seti I is also an allrounder. I would probably go with culture. His rule marks the top of craftsmanship in the new kingdom, his tomb is the most famous and drew lots of tourists for centuries (until it was closed in the 90s), and his temple at Abydos might be the most beautiful of Egypt's many temples.
    • Psamtik II and Amasis (II) would probably not be too popular, because they are later kings (26th dynasty, a Golden Age that is often overlooked). Both were very successful though in peace and war. Amasis is also one the more colorful Pharaohs for us since he was kind of legendary in Ptolemaic times and many greek writers wrote about him (often seeing him as a very wise scoundrel).
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
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  7. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    Thx for your detailed reply, but maybe you may consider using a better paragraphing for that chunk of words? A sea of words simply hurts my eyes.

    (Let me have some time to look at it before I make further reply, apologies.)


    Edited: Maybe I shall make some more choices for the vote. Wait for my updates, haha.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
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  8. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    Khufu's name was marked mainly as a wonder builder and there was little to tell other than that.
    I am not sure if we should make him a super wonder builder, that will be boring and will also shadow Cleo's choice.
    Amenhotp III is a considerable choice though.
     
  9. The Kingmaker

    The Kingmaker Alexander

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    I'd at least give Khufu credit for his great expeditions in search of resources: quarrying stone, mining for turquoise and copper, trading for cedar wood.

    Not sure how to turn that into an ability though... Faster wonder building for every improved resource of that type?
     
  10. TheSpaceCowboy

    TheSpaceCowboy "Save a horse..."

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    I'd want Akhenaten (less so Nefertit), but with a different Leader Ability

    Henotheism
    • After founding a Pantheon, Faith points double as Great Prophet points
    • After founding a Religion, Egypt's Pantheon is removed from all Egyptian cities
    • Egyptian Apostles can Evangelize Beliefs two extra times (can get an extra Founder, Follower, or Enhancer belief, but not another Worship Building)
    • Each time an Egyptian Apostle Evangelizes a belief, Egypt's religion spreads to all Egyptian cities
    I'd also be willing to accept as a second Egyptian leader Hatsheput, Khufu, Nefertiti, Ramses II, Tutankhamen. Even Amenhotep IV Epiphanies if he were a villain (essentially treated the same as if Hitler were included; Civ needs some villains).
     
  11. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    Glad to inform you that I have been updating it. See how am I doing this time?
     
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  12. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    I wonder if we are generating great prophet points after we found a religion?

    I like the idea of extra believes. But other than that, the bonus is too defensive...I believe Akhenaten was aggressive and ambitious in his reforms.

    Apart from that, if we want Egypt to win religious game, it needs to affect other civs rather than solely affecting Egypt herself.
     
  13. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

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    An idea for Hatchepsut's LUA, if that's not too intrusive

    Mission to Punt: All trade Routes grant +1 gold for every two bonus resources worked in the sending city. The sending city also gains +1 Amenity for every luxury improved in the receiving city for the duration of the trade route.

    Alternatively:

    Valley of Kings: Archaeologists are recruited 50% faster and have a 65% chance of digging up an extra artifact during excavations. Every Sphinx within your borders spawns an Antiquity Site upon researching Archaeology.
     
  14. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    I would have loved to have seen Hatshepsut instead of Cleo, but not along with Cleo. Ramesses II was fine for Civ5, but we've already got a wonder-hording egomaniac. I'd love to see Akhenaten in the game. He was weird, and charismatic, and took Egypt in a completely different direction from the one it had always followed. I don't object to any of the pharaohs Siptah listed, but in a game about big personalities and not necessarily "the greatest rulers," I think it's a wonderful opportunity to have Akhenaten. Plus, with his capital at Akhetaten, they could still bring in a third pharaoh ruling from Thebes/Waset if they wanted someone more traditional.
     
  15. Naktis

    Naktis Chieftain

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    Since we got Cleopatra , I doubt we get second female leader for egypt unless Firaxis plans to give us 3 leaders for Egypt, which I doubt it , also there are plenty good options for male leader.
    Best option would be from ancient Egypt era.
    Menes/Narmor and Khufu does fit as very ancient pharaohs from a cradle of civilization time...ahh sounds nice.
    Tho if they want add female, Nefertiti would be nice to see.
    I just dont wanna see Ramses...never liked him and I never will.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
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  16. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    Well, unless they're going to add Caesarion, they're sort of out of options after her, since Egypt became a Roman province after Cleopatra VII's death. :p
     
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  17. Naktis

    Naktis Chieftain

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    oh my now thats to bad for me
     
  18. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    These are all good ideas. But they are too similar too Cleo's own LUA. And I think sth related to the R&F era system will be more interesting

    This is quite good, though I think its still weak in nature. Look at Victoria.

    And Valley of Kings was not Hatshepsut's own thing. All pharaohs in the dynasty shared that place as tombs and Hatshepsut wasnt the first one to do so.
     
  19. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    India got 2 male leaders already, if you hv noticed.
    I think the gender diversity is not the point for alt leaders. The playstyle diversity is what drives it. So i think its ok to be homosexual- I meant having leaders of the same gender lol.

    Menes/Narmor were similar to Gilgamesh. Yet we have a long epic featuring Gilgamesh's character but we only have Menes/Narmer's name crafted on a plate. It is hard to make such a leader into life.

    Khufu will be too wonder focused, like the old Ramsey, maybe game breaking and boring to be added into game. But he is a good example of ancient egyptian leader. I considered him too, but he also suffers from lack of information, like Narmer, alhtough Khufu had left a bit more things to look at.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  20. halfhalfharp

    halfhalfharp Chieftain

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    Agree, although I like Cleo as well as Hat.

    Akhenaten is totally worthy of mentioned as he still has such a lively character, although he was from almost 3000 years ago. And he happens to fit the religious route, making a stronger niche for Egypt in that path.

    I also marked the their specific capitals in my post too.
     
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