Which came first the chicken or the egg?

[GoodGame]

Well I read somewhere that scientists found that the gene for laying eggs was younger than some other gene, which meant that the first birds gave birth to live young. So the chicken.

This makes intuitive sense, without going to the citation.

Eggs are a specialized form of reproduction of which other forms of reproduction pre-date. So it's reasonable to think the organism existed prior to switching to a new form of reproduction.

The only intuitive counter-argument I might make against it would be that the development of eggs as a means of reproduction might be a speciation event in itself (but if one isn't convinced that evolution exists, then this line of reasoning would likely be ignored).


But I also like Aimee's suggestion that a mutant egg made the first chicken.


A probabilistic approach would be: 1. when did egg-laying first evolve, and 2. when did chickens first evolve?
Without looking up dates, the answer is probably early dinos (~230 million years ago) and only untill about Cretaceous that eggs were thick enough to consistently fossilize, while chickens (jungle fowl) evolved about the Miocene (~23 millions years ago). But easily, it's the egg came first.

I retract my Chicken vote.

 

[classical_hero]

Well yah kinda.

Except in between Dino and Chicken there were a bunch of dino like and proto-chicken like animals, until they got the current result; the Chicken.

That is absolutely amazing how such a thing could happen. Do we ever see tha happening?

 

[naterator]

That is absolutely amazing how such a thing could happen. Do we ever see tha happening?

only if you're willing to open your eyes.

 

[IAM]

Sounds like most people are putting all their eggs in the evolutionary basket without having a chicken in the pot.

 

[classical_hero]

only if you're willing to open your eyes.

Just because they have made a 'transition' does not mean it actually happened, plus I was make a specific reference to how the change would happen, that one dinosaur lays and egg and out pops chicken. The whole problem with the scenario is that we trying to fit the pieces after they happened or supposed to happen, so that is basically just guess work. Also the changes we see right now are not enough to even make the fantastic transitions that are supposed to happen. The biggest change that needs to take place is the way the bird breathes compared to other creatures.

 

[GoodGame]

Bird breath and allie the aligator: http://www.newscientist.com/article...ird-breath-may-explain-dinosaurs-triumph.html

Birds, crocodiles and dinosaurs have much in common – including, it turns out, their breath. The hyper-efficient breathing system of birds is shared with alligators, and probably evolved in archosaurs, the common ancestor of crocodilians, birds and dinosaurs.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Just because they have made a 'transition' does not mean it actually happened, plus I was make a specific reference to how the change would happen, that one dinosaur lays and egg and out pops chicken. The whole problem with the scenario is that we trying to fit the pieces after they happened or supposed to happen, so that is basically just guess work. Also the changes we see right now are not enough to even make the fantastic transitions that are supposed to happen. The biggest change that needs to take place is the way the bird breathes compared to other creatures.

Evolution from A to B didn't happened in a couple hundred years, it happened over millions of years.

If you are the type that won't believe something without proof, than fine, look at the evolution of Aurochs to Cows, or Boars to Pigs.

It's not a process where you take two dino's and out pops a chicken. Mutations occur every generation and slowly slowly over many many generations will we see changes.

 

[Flying Pig]

Evolution from A to B didn't happened in a couple hundred years, it happened over millions of years.

If you are the type that won't believe something without proof, than fine, look at the evolution of Aurochs to Cows, or Boars to Pigs.

It's not a process where you take two dino's and out pops a chicken. Mutations occur every generation and slowly slowly over many many generations will we see changes.

Well surely since mutations happen in one generation (mother has gene X, son has a mutated gene X, his son has mutated gene X...) then it could happen very quickly, given the right circumstances for propogation (small population or man's input)

 

[TheLastOne36]

Well surely since mutations happen in one generation (mother has gene X, son has a mutated gene X, his son has mutated gene X...) then it could happen very quickly, given the right circumstances for propogation (small population or man's input)

Your right, it's what happened to cause many plants to become suitable for human agriculture. (Like what happened with Wheat, the mutation to not have the seeds 'explode' and fall in the ground would've been suicidal if it wasn't for the fact these seeds were then reachable for humans)

 

[DroopyTofu]

Easy. The chicken came first. Adam came as a man, not a child, so why would the same thing not happen to the first chicken. (I know I'm setting myself up to be flamed, but please don't)

 

[Haseri]

Your right, it's what happened to cause many plants to become suitable for human agriculture. (Like what happened with Wheat, the mutation to not have the seeds 'explode' and fall in the ground would've been suicidal if it wasn't for the fact these seeds were then reachable for humans)

Or, as another example, bannanas.

 

[_random_]

That is absolutely amazing how such a thing could happen. Do we ever see tha happening?

I posted a thread about it a while back.