Which country should be classified the 4th Rome?

[Karalysia]

1st Rome was the Roman Empire, 2nd Rome the Byzantines though the HRE wished they were and Mehmed II claimed the title so the Ottoman Empire was for awhile, and the 3rd Rome Russia. If a nation today were to be classified as a 4th Rome, as in the successor to the legacy of Rome who would it be?

I say the USA #1 and maybe the Vatican.

 

[Tani Coyote]

We do have many Latin influences and are quite powerful, so USA number 1 indeed. We also extend our control over the world via the informal empire of alliances and clients.

The Vatican should be excluded by merit of already being in Rome. Not to mention having little tangible power.

Worst part? All the Romes fall eventually.

 

[Dachs]

China is more like Imperial Rome than the USA is anyway

 

[bhsup]

Why is Russia the 3rd Rome? Just because they called their leaders Tsars (caesars)?

 

[Karalysia]

Close marriage and trade ties to Byzantium with both the Kievan Rus (who attempted to take Constantinople) and Muscovy, and the sharing of Orthodox religion.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Why is it relevant? Rome collapsed, why would we want to emulate that?

 

[Ajidica]

After Russia, none. Nobody else had any ties, however tenous, to the 'Roman' Empire.

 

[Tani Coyote]

China is more like Imperial Rome than the USA is anyway

They can be the fifth Rome. It's our turn!

Why is Russia the 3rd Rome? Just because they called their leaders Tsars (caesars)?

After the fall of Constantinople everybody had a giant ego-stroking contest to claim the title - Russia, the HRE and Turks for various reasons. Russia I imagine for Orthodoxy, the HRE because some desire to be Roman, and the Turks for controlling the city(indeed, they tried to conquer Italy a bit later didn't they?). I dunno the exact reasons but that's what I'd guess.

Russia probably gets an extra point because it lasted the longest and became a superpower in its own right. And as Karalysia said, ties with Byzantium.

 

[Dachs]

Why would you want to be Rome? Western Rome sucked until it started dying.

 

[Karalysia]

Why would you want to be Rome? Western Rome sucked until it started dying.

I think you have it the wrong way around. Eastern Rome sucked, the Roman Republic was awesome. I'm especially fond of the land redistribution.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Why would you want to be Rome? Western Rome sucked until it started dying.

25% faster construction speed of buildings already in the capitol is a pretty nice bonus.

Also those legions aren't too bad either.

 

[Tani Coyote]

Why would you want to be Rome? Western Rome sucked until it started dying.

I assume because of the supreme power, wealth, and cultural influence it enjoyed.

...of course, we all ignore all the downsides of Rome too.

I think you have it the wrong way around. Eastern Rome sucked, the Roman Republic was awesome. I'm especially fond of the land redistribution.

I should have known you had a secret agenda behind this!

 

[Dachs]

I think you have it the wrong way around. Eastern Rome sucked, the Roman Republic was awesome. I'm especially fond of the land redistribution.

The Republic was boring, and your tired selective Marxism is annoying.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Why is Russia the 3rd Rome? Just because they called their leaders Tsars (caesars)?

Moscow inherited the Orthodox Patriarchate, and the Russian and Byzantine royal lines married in such a way as to make the Grand Prince (not Tsar) the heir of the Byzantine line. Not that the latter matters, since that line died out in the Time of Troubles anyway.

 

[NYHunter]

They can be the fifth Rome. It's our turn!

But, they will collapse before we do so they won't get a chance.

 

[Tani Coyote]

But, they will collapse before we do so they won't get a chance.

Shhhh. We can always make them hopeful so they won't want to compete. Delude them into thinking we'll crumble like a city under siege, and in the meantime, they fail to prepare for their own collapse.

We must also praise their growing power and overhype it so they fall into the trap all empires do: getting so caught up in your glory you forget what made yourself glorious to begin with.

 

[Perfection]

Nauru

 

[bombshoo]

You forgot Poland.

 

[innonimatu]

The Republic was boring, and your tired selective Marxism is annoying.

Boring? What about all those civil wars as it was on its way to collapse, starting with the social war? And the rather funny idea (if we are to believe the ancient authors) of the plebians going "on strike" until their demans for political representation were met? That one alone would justify some marxists liking to make some comparisons (more that the Gracchi).

 

[History_Buff]

I'd say Britain was probably the closest, but given the way their Empire came apart, it's tough to compare them to Rome.