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Which Evil Leader is most Likely to become Good?

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Duruk, Jan 19, 2009.

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Which Evil Leader is most likely to become Good?

  1. Perpentach

    16 vote(s)
    11.2%
  2. Keelyn

    16 vote(s)
    11.2%
  3. Flauros

    3 vote(s)
    2.1%
  4. Alexis

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Jonas Endain

    9 vote(s)
    6.3%
  6. Sheelba

    22 vote(s)
    15.4%
  7. Charadon

    1 vote(s)
    0.7%
  8. Mahala

    24 vote(s)
    16.8%
  9. Auric Ulvin

    2 vote(s)
    1.4%
  10. Hyborem

    6 vote(s)
    4.2%
  11. Tebryn Arbandi

    1 vote(s)
    0.7%
  12. Os-Gabella

    3 vote(s)
    2.1%
  13. Faeryl Viconia

    9 vote(s)
    6.3%
  14. Decius

    31 vote(s)
    21.7%
  1. Duruk

    Duruk Chieftain

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    Once again, sorry if someone's already done this poll.
    I think this question is a bit harder than which good leader would become evil.
    I'm stuck between Sheelba and Mahala: both are definitely evil, but Sheelba was raised in Bannor (so she's got to have retained some good) and both seem to actually care about their people. I voted for Sheelba mostly just because I like her more.
    (Once again, I have no idea what's going on with Decius)
     
  2. cyther

    cyther Lord of the Dance

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    I am torn between Perp and Decius. Decius lived and was raised as good and becomes good if you choose a certain option in the Fall of Cuantine scenario. Perp is probably good sometimes but very rarely if he is.
     
  3. loocas

    loocas Chieftain

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    And Mahala?

    I hesitate to vote because I'm never sure whether we're assuming that a leader is good or evil because of their patron angel or because of their actions. I understand it's the first.

    Anyhow, I wonder about Jonas. He's dedicated to Bhall, but to the fallen and corrupted version of her. I don't know what she's going to do when she recovers, but would Jonas follow her back to heaven? (Hmm, how time is left for the scenario contest?)

    I agree with the OP on Sheelba too, a bit. Not that she has some lingering good in her, because the Bannor aren't all that good in my book, but because of the circumstances in which she became evil. She ran off in a typical teenager fit and met Rantine who set her along the evil path. She hasn't had much opportunity to choose her own path, but now that she's grown up, who knows?

    I think Perpentach is just exempt from any discussion on morality. Decius, once he becomes evil, may not be likely to go back. I don't know. I voted Jonas.
     
  4. Giga-Gigan

    Giga-Gigan Chieftain

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    I believe that Mahala is most likely to turn good primarily because from what I read of her, she doesn't have much inclination towards evil aside from leading a barbaric society and vassalage to Illians, and even then she seems to be a major reformer within her society. At least compared to Chardon, most ironically however I believe it would be Chardon who would break away from the Illians, because a) he did once already and b) if it were Chardon leading the Dovillo in the opening scenario you can bet Chardon would not be able to resist picking off the Illians...
     
  5. Darksaber1

    Darksaber1 Secret Emperor

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    How good do you mean? Do you mean the leader becomes "Good", or Nutreal?
     
  6. PotatoOverdose

    PotatoOverdose Chieftain

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    Auric Ulvin. All he wants to do is stop global warming and the widespread cult known as the "christian-right" has branded him as 'evil' for his efforts, claiming that "further study is needed".

    But seriously, I'd say perpentach. Lorewise he really isn't evil per se, just out of control. He released beeri from captivity after all and he didn't kill Keelyn's mother. When he does something evil, like dominating some hapless villagers to escape jail time, he doesn't do it with the intention of being evil.
     
  7. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I used to think that Auric could be redeemed (he was such a nice boy...), but after what he did to Cassiel that seems highly unlikely.


    Perpentach certainly was evil when he was in control. Kyorlin considered him the most evil of his students (or at least worse than Laroth and Gastrius), although he of course realized that this was largely his fault as he was practically a father to him and and taught him all that wickedness. He isn't as evil now that he isn't fully in control of his own mind. I personally think that a large part of his current virtues come from a Sun spell that Kyorlin cast on him during their battle, making him incapable of being dishonest--although not stopping him from twisting the meaning of his words when he chooses to.


    I think that Keelyn is probably the most likely to turn good. She doesn't seem all that evil actually, just childish and a bit crazy. Sure she has a lot of demonic friends, but they don't really do much evil after they get to know her. She can basically make Balors good, or neutral at least. If she ever gets away from the insanity of her nation and grows up I can see her becoming good. Even if she doesn't really change much, she does more to fight evil than a lot of good leaders do. Erebus is certainly better off with her on Hyborem's throne and Hyborem in the naughty pit.
     
  8. KillerClowns

    KillerClowns Chieftain

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    Bluntly, Perpentach's a sadistic monster who only releases people because it keeps things interesting. Keelyn looks pretty nice from her innocent apperance in the Grand Menagerie, and her 'pedia. Then Kael made the mistake of letting me write her text for Lord of the Balors... :mwaha: The vampires have eaten enough souls in their times that the only way they could go good would be to commit suicide. Hyborem... yeah. Tebryn Arbandi is too cowardly to risk displeasing his dark lords, and Os-Gabella is competing with Perpentach for "Craziest Person on Erebus." Faeryl, meanwhile, is too paranoid to do anything kind for other people; she's convinced everyone is as conniving and self-serving as she is. I'm assuming Decius to be the Decius of the Calabim path, in which case he chose to fall and shows little interest in changing. Auric has too much of Mulcarn in him to change much at all. The leaders of the Clan of Embers and Doviello are looking the most angelic of the lot, and of them, Mahala seems the most willing to accept change and even good if it will serve her people.
    EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, and having read MC's ninja-post (I took a while!), Keelyn is moving up the rankings, although still below Mahala. She only gets the two moments of casual sadism,
    Spoiler Lord of the Balors :
    magically torturing one of her soldiers so his screams drowned out Lethe's songs and threatening the hiding souls of the timid for her own amusement.
    She's clearly an improvement over Hyborem on the throne of Hell, although her motivations weren't exactly pure; she was avenging a slight, and would likely overthrow Sabathiel just as eagerly if he ended up in a summoning circle and refused to play tea party. Then again, Sabathiel seems like he'd take the opportunity and convert her, so...
    Again, I'm sticking with Mahala, but only on a technicality. Keelyn is fundamentally selfish and spoiled. Any good she does is merely for her own gain. Mahala, meanwhile, is quite the opposite, genuinely concerned with the well-being of her people.
    EDIT 2: And now I cannot get the image out of my head of Sabathiel, dolled up and willingly playing tea party with Keelyn and a Balor, occasionally rolling his eyes in a bemused "why am I doing this again?" kind of way.
     
  9. wilboman

    wilboman Hibernorse Frost Giant

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    Definitely Mahala, she's only evil in a more general "the strong shall subjugate the weak" kind of way. I mean, c'mon. Keelyn has demons for playmates. She takes over a part of hell (or tries to) because she's p'd off. You can't really avoid getting ever more corrupted by that kind of thing.
     
  10. Skitters

    Skitters Chieftain

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    Personally I don't see Faeryl Viconia as evil as such - more she is convinced in her ability as being the best option for the survival of the Svart and Ljos...

    The splintered court suggests that she'll even work with those who would oppose her (well okay, she'll let people think they have power but will really be pulling the strings)

    As far as the Elven people are concerned, I see her as being pretty good towards all who serve her(...albeit females would be "more equal" than males), and whilst she may be evil towards the other civs, I don't see much difference in how the Svart would view other civs as for example the Bannor in the midst of a crusade.

    Power hungrey yes, but I'd imagine the life of one who serves her would likely be more tolerable than members of the other 'evil' civs and indeed of many of the neutral and good civs too...
     
  11. Giga-Gigan

    Giga-Gigan Chieftain

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    Maybe, but I hardly consider burying your political rivals alive an act of goodness.
     
  12. Skitters

    Skitters Chieftain

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    what's one life for the sake of the Elven people...
     
  13. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    I don't know how similar elven life is to communism, I'm not trying ot make that comparison, but I think Faeryl would be similar to Stalin in being paranoid and ruthless to any percieved disloyalty.
    The constant backstabbing and plotting of svartalfar politics would make her so.
    Maybe the "elf on the street" would do okay under her, but anyone in any position of power had better watch what they do and say very carefully. And at all times, she has cadres of spys.


    "Yes, yes, the biscuts are delightful. Now can we please discuss the plight of political prisoners in Jubilee? What? You want me to dance first? No! No.... fine." :lol:
     
  14. Giga-Gigan

    Giga-Gigan Chieftain

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    Whats in the courtesy of putting that one life to a quick and painless death. Seriously I'm not buying it.

    At the Knight: Are we speaking of Faeryl of the Svartalfar or Faeryl of the Losjalfar?
     
  15. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    Faeryl as either once she thinks she can get away with it. She has been shaped by the shadowy politics of the Svartalfar, but even if she secretly led the Ljosalfar, I think she could find ways to strike at those she suspected of being disloyal, using Essus assassins, and being a usurper herself she would still have plenty of suspicions of others, even if they weren't from a society that encouraged plotting and betrayal.
     
  16. Giga-Gigan

    Giga-Gigan Chieftain

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    How long do you think it would take for her to get back in the subterfuge game? It would seem weird I think if the summer queen all of the sudden started instating royal assassins, switching out officials, and showing off her cleavage.
     
  17. Lance of Llanwy

    Lance of Llanwy Chieftain

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    I voted for Keelyn, merely because I believe she has the most capacity to become good. Most of the evil leaders are completely irredeemable. Perp is evil, regardless of the little niceties he does to amuse himself, he still mentally dominates others and then steals their bodies, and that's only the beginning. Faeryl is way too paranoid to ever be good. I could go on, but some horrible, unimaginable jolt could shake Keelyn. She's still impressionable. But that's still highly unlikely.

    IMO, Mahala is the most likely of the evil leaders to change alignment, though I think she is still far too savage and calculating to ever qualify as good. Mahala is all about the Doviello. If it were beneficial to the Doviello, she'd ally with the Infernals. Or with Basium. And something tells me changing sides wouldn't bother her much if the Doviello benefited. I see her as quite likely to end up Neutral, but is ultimately all about what is best for her people, not what is best for Erebus.
     
  18. Darksaber1

    Darksaber1 Secret Emperor

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    I tend to see Mahala's Doviello as a more "natural" wolf pack, more out to servive then anything, while Charadon's Doviello are more of the Big Bad Wol of folklore.
    I could see good orc's quite esaily, but while they serve Bhall, odds are badly against Jonas or Sheelba. I used to think that Auric was more like Mulcarn, being almost nuetral on the active-evil scale, but the scenarios have proven he is far more evil then Mulcarn.
    I really don't know who would be most likely to turn good.
     
  19. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    Well, by using Esus assassins I meant one's that couldn't be traced to her. I think the change won't be noticeable except to people who knew Arendal very well.
     
  20. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    And they would probably be dead before they could notice the difference anyway, right?
     

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