Which female leaders would you want for various civilizations?

Patine said:
Wasn't he the default explorer for the Dutch in the original version of Colonization?
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Yep. One of the more powerful governors of New Amsterdam, in fact, and not a bad choice for a non-monarch/stadtholder leader for the Dutch.

Guandao said:
What about that Dutch Prime Minister who got eaten by his own people? Johan something.
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Johan De Witt :-) I've mentioned him in my post as well (another Colonization leader, actually, since he's a Founding Father you can earn). He was a very gifted politician and mathematician, but also anti-Orangist, which is why he was ultimately lynched in such a brutal fashion. Still, Stadthouder for 19 years during the Dutch Golden Age is a track record you can't really ignore when looking at leaders.

But um yeah, neither of which are women, so best we don't derail too much.
 
Patine said:
but Eva Peron and her inexplicable popularity is something that sticks out at me.
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I feel a similar way about Jackie Kennedy. I don't get why she was so popular. Although her husband dying the way he did had something to do with it. Early death makes some people more popular than they should be (looking at you Kurt Cobain). And far too many people equal good looks as far more a positive quality than they should, especially with women. And while I respect other people's opinion that she could be a choice for an American female leader, I would still go with someone like Edith Wilson or even Susan B. Anthony.
 
I don't want to see any female leaders, nor any male leaders! The leader of my civ is Me, no one else. For my AI opponents, a robot figure is acceptable, but probably would prefer pictures of the Firaxis
employees on the AI team.
 
playshogi said:
I don't want to see any female leaders, nor any male leaders! The leader of my civ is Me, no one else. For my AI opponents, a robot figure is acceptable, but probably would prefer pictures of the Firaxis
employees on the AI team.
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I think you are in a TINY minority, perhaps close to unique, in that opinion. Extremely few Civ players want empty, soulless icons as leaders.
 
Patine said:
I think you are in a TINY minority, perhaps close to unique, in that opinion. Extremely few Civ players want empty, soulless icons as leaders.
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Putting a pretty face on an AI opponent does not change the true, soulless nature of your opponents. If people want female leaders, I can suggest Taylor Swift for the younger set and for older folks, Marilyn Monroe. I have forgotten what came in between those, already.
 
playshogi said:
Putting a pretty face on an AI opponent does not change the true, soulless nature of your opponents. If people want female leaders, I can suggest Taylor Swift for the younger set and for older folks, Marilyn Monroe. I have forgotten what came in between those, already.
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This is Civilization, not Hollywood Squares Online. AI players have AI scripts, agendas, and other features that distinguish them clearly from each other. If you can't tell them apart, at all, or have such palpable contempt for the long tradition of historically-derived Civ leaders, then perhaps you're playing the wrong game.
 
playshogi said:
Putting a pretty face on an AI opponent does not change the true, soulless nature of your opponents. If people want female leaders, I can suggest Taylor Swift for the younger set and for older folks, Marilyn Monroe. I have forgotten what came in between those, already.
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Madonna, which coincidently brings back the subject of Eva Peron.
 
Policarpa Salavarrieta (aka. La Pola) linked to a Colombia/Gran Colombia civilization.

She was a spy during the War of Independence and was executed by the Spanish Royalists.

She gathered military information that was important for the armies of Simón Bolívar and Santander to win the war and encouraged people, specially women, to fight on the Patriot side of the war, despite the restrictions that women faced in colonial New Granada/Colombia.

Immediately after her execution, she became quite famous and her image has been used as a personification of Colombia as a nation, specially during the 19th century. She later became a feminist symbol during the 20th century and still remains a quite beloved character of the history of Colombia.

Her in-game abilities can be related to espionage as well as culture, due to her being one of the "uniting" icons around which a post-colonial Colombian identity was formed.

(Fun fact: I bet the devs in Civ 6 thought of including her as a Comandante General for Gran Colombia, or at least had her in the radar, since her name is one of the possible citizen/spy names that can appear in Civ 6 for Gran Colombia. Perhaps she wasn't included due to her not being a military general per se, despite her contributions to the War of Independence).
 
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untitledjuan said:
Immediately after her execution, she became quite famous and her image has been used as a personification of Colombia as a nation, specially during the 19th century. She later became a feminist symbol during the 20th century and still remains a quite beloved character of the history of Colombia.
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THIS is interesting, given, apparently most of the female personifications of nations statistically have unknown or dubiously attributed models.
 
Disgustipated said:
I feel a similar way about Jackie Kennedy. I don't get why she was so popular. Although her husband dying the way he did had something to do with it. Early death makes some people more popular than they should be (looking at you Kurt Cobain). And far too many people equal good looks as far more a positive quality than they should, especially with women. And while I respect other people's opinion that she could be a choice for an American female leader, I would still go with someone like Edith Wilson or even Susan B. Anthony.
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I don't know much about Edith Wilson beyond finding her husband contemptible, but Abigail Adams would be my first choice for a female leader of the United States. My second choice would be her close friend, Mercy Otis Warren, America's first female historian--though she became estranged from the Adamses after the Revolution as she was on Jefferson's side of politics. At any rate, Abigail Adams was her husband's closest advisor and confidante and held considerable sway during his presidency--so publicly that she was often called "Madame President," fondly by her husband's allies and snidely by his enemies.
 
To comment on the U.S. First Lady discussion, I think a figure like Abigail Adams would be a better choice than Edith Wilson, despite the latter practically serving as our country's president for a time. People are always quick to point that out, but I don't understand why. It's a very neat historical fact (and yet another reason I will never take Wilson's presidency seriously), but I don't really see anyone complimenting what she did in office.

Respected intellectuals like Adams have been looked upon very fondly, however, and Adams herself was incredibly forward-thinking for the time. I think activists such as Susan B. Anthony or Elizabeth Cady Stanton (heck, even Sojourner Truth counts) would also belong in this tier- impactful American women who led causes with lasting effects.

I don't feel that Jackie Kennedy or some of the other First Ladies are of that same caliber.

Oh, and a hard pass to Nancy Reagan. I'd really like if we never got any Reagans in Civ, especially considering how recent they are.
 
Updating my wishlist a little, and leaving out explanations:

Launch:
* Irene of Athens (Greece -> Byzantium -> Ottomans) (giving slight odds to Alexios)
* Nafanua (Tonga -> Hawaii -> Maori)
* Elizabeth of Russia (Rome -> Byzantium -> Russia)
* Maybe Margaret or Aethelflad at launch, would be nice.

Expansions:
* Zenobia (Assyria/Phoenicia -> wherever)
* Maria Teresa (Goths -> Carolingians -> Austria-Hungary)
* Soma (Khmer -> Burma -> Siam)
* Margaret I (Norse -> Denmark -> Norway)
* Olga of Kiev (Slavs -> Kievan Rus' -> Russia)
* Diyha/Sayyida Al Hurra (Numidia -> Almoravid -> Morocco)
* Elizabeth/Aethelflad (Mercia/Heptarchy -> England -> Britain)
* Amanirensas (Nubia -> Akan -> Ashanti) (maybe)
* Wu Zetian (Qin -> Tang -> Qing) (maybe)
* Hapunda (Purepecha -> Aztec -> Mexico) (maybe)
* Grace O'Malley (Gaels -> England -> Ireland) (maybe)

Stretches but have a chance:

* Victoria (British Empire "Mega Britain")
* Isabella (Spanish Empire "Mega Spain")
* Tamar (Hittites/Urartu? -> Georgia -> ??? Russia?)
* Matilda di Canossa (Rome -> Tuscany -> Italy)
 
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RedCourtJester said:
Updating my list a little, and leaving out explanations:

Launch:
* Irene of Athens (Greece -> Byzantium -> Ottomans)
* Nafanua (Tonga -> Hawaii -> Maori)

Expansions:
* Zenobia (Assyria/Phoenicia -> wherever)
* Maria Teresa (Goths -> Carolingians -> Austria-Hungary)
* Soma (Khmer -> Burma -> Siam)
* Margaret I (Norse -> Denmark -> Norway)
* Olga of Kiev (Slavs -> Kievan Rus' -> Russia)
* Diyha/Sayyida Al Hurra (Numidia -> Almoravid -> Morocco)
* Elizabeth/Aethelflad (Mercia/Heptarchy -> England -> Britain)
* Amanirensas (Nubia -> Akan -> Ashanti) (maybe)
* Wu Zetian (Qin -> Tang -> Qing) (maybe)
* Hapunda (Purepecha -> Aztec -> Mexico) (maybe)

Stretches but have a chance:

* Victoria (British Empire "Mega Britain")
* Isabella (Spanish Empire "Mega Spain")
* Maeve (Scoti -> Gaels -> Ireland)
* Tamar (Hittites/Urartu? -> Georgia -> ??? Russia?)
* Matilda di Canossa (Rome -> 4 options or just Florence -> Italy)
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With all due respects, I mind one's, "predictions," to be more wistful than likely. Perhaps one should phrase it in the more realistic light of a, "wish list."
 
Patine said:
With all due respects, I mind one's, "predictions," to be more wistful than likely. Perhaps one should phrase it in the more realistic light of a, "wish list."
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I didn't call those predictions in that post, they are what I want. Just happens that what I want may end up aligning with reality in a good number of cases.
 
RedCourtJester said:
I didn't call those predictions in that post, they are what I want. Just happens that what I want may end up aligning with reality in a good number of cases.
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You didn't call them anything specific. But, since, past such lists by you have been couched or intimated as preditions, there was no information above to say those were any different.
 
Patine said:
You didn't call them anything specific. But, since, past such lists by you have been couched or intimated as preditions, there was no information above to say those were any different.
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I've also struck out everything in the prior post. It's an outdated model of my expectations/hopes based on how I understand the game to be developing.
 
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