Which female leaders would you want for various civilizations?

[agonistes]

I’ve never been of the persuasion that Civilization needs an equal amount of male and female leaders, nor a believer of the idea now in vogue that demographic representation is a first order value, but seeing as Firaxis probably leans towards those mindsets, and given that female leaders certainly add an aesthetic variety to the game, it’s an interesting thought experiment to ask which prominent females from history* would be fitting leaders* of their respective civilizations in the game.

There’s no need to limit your answer to only announced or likely civs, nor to omit civs with leaders already announced, nor to exclude female leaders for civilizations which would be better led by a male countryman.

*Or pseudo-history, legends, or mythology. The actual historical record can at times be scant regarding females
**leader strictly in the game mechanic sense, not necessarily a political leader per se.

I’ll get things started (in alphabetical order):

• America - Jackie Kennedy
• Anglo-Saxons - Lady Godiva
• Argentina - Eva Perón
• Britons - Boudica, Guinevere
• Byzantium - Saint Helena, Theodora
• Carthage - Dido
• Egypt - Cleopatra, Nefertiti
• England - Elizabeth I, Victoria
• France - Joan of Arc, Marie Antionette
• Germany - Gudrun
• Greece - Helen, Hippolyta
• Hawaii - Liliʻuokalani
• Israel - Ruth
• Norway - Lagertha
• Persians - Esther
• Powhatan - Pocahontas
• Rome - Lucretia, Rhea Silvia
• Russia - Anastasia
• Shoshone - Sacagawea
• Spain - Isabelle

I'm always a fan of Catherine/Russia, Elizabeth/England, Maria T/Austria, and Byzantine's Theodora.

 

[j51]

I'm always a fan of Catherine/Russia, Elizabeth/England, Maria T/Austria, and Byzantine's Theodora.

I agree with all of those except Theodora. Really hoping for Irene of Athens for a Byzantine leader this time!

 

[Zaarin]

I agree with all of those except Theodora. Really hoping for Irene of Athens for a Byzantine leader this time!

Irene of Athens or Anna Komnene would be a nice change of pace.

 

[RedCourtJester]

Irene of Athens or Anna Komnene would be a nice change of pace.

I'm giving Irene/Alexios 50/50 odds. I don't think any other leader has chances of being in the running, given that I think Byzantium really wants to call back to Greece in VII under this "layers" idea.

 

[Zaarin]

I'm giving Irene/Alexios 50/50 odds. I don't think any other leader has chances of being in the running, given that I think Byzantium really wants to call back to Greece in VII under this "layers" idea.

Alexios I Komnenos has long topped my Byzantine wishlist so I'd be happy.

 

[RedCourtJester]

Alexios I Komnenos has long topped my Byzantine wishlist so I'd be happy.

Oddly enough, I think chances are affected by how "differentiated" leaders feel juxtaposed against similar/related civ leaders (personality/attire/culture-wise):

So I think big factors on which we get will include:

1. Do we have Ivan III/IV of Russia (points for Irene), or Elizabeth/Catherine of Russia (points for Alexios)?
2. Is Simeon of Bulgaria or Dusan of Serbia planned (points for Irene)?
3. Is Tamar of Georgia planned (points for Alexios)?

It's a pretty even split to me, but I think which one we get may suggest some other leader choices per this logic. That just seems to have been Firaxis's MO in the past, and really derives more from strong game design than anything particularly of historical merit.

EDIT: But as a matter of personal preference, I would gladly ruin Simeon/Dusan's chances if it meant a trifecta of Alexios, Elizabeth, and Tamar.

 

[MasterPaw]

Putting a pretty face on an AI opponent does not change the true, soulless nature of your opponents. If people want female leaders, I can suggest Taylor Swift for the younger set and for older folks, Marilyn Monroe. I have forgotten what came in between those, already.

Just as much as putitng a pretty civ flavour like France or England doesn't change the true soulless nature of your opponent civ, an algorithm and data

Leaders have different behaviour and traits, it's not just flavour
And even if only flavour it would be ok, not the only way to do it (like Humankind) but an ok way

 

[Lukas1990]

Byzantium - Theodora the Armenian (better option than Irene of Athens)
Georgia - Tamar the Great
Poland - Maria Skłodowska-Curie
England - Elisabeth I, Empress Matilda
Russia - Catherine the Great
Rome - Livia Drusilla
Kush (ancient Nubia) - Amanirenas
Sumer - Enheduanna (sumerian poetess and priestess; daughter of Sargon)
China - Wu Zetian
Spain - Isabella of Castile
Maya - Lady Six Sky
Austria - Maria Theresa
Greece - Sappho
Egypt - Arsinoe II

 

[Zaarin]

Sumer - Enheduanna

I'd love to see Enheduanna in the game.

Greece - Sappho

I was struggling to think who I'd choose for a female Greek leader, a civ with very few options. All the best options IMO come from Hellenistic North Africa (Hypatia, Cleopatra VII Philopater, Arsinoe II, Arete of Cyrene). I finally said screw it and went with Penelope.

 

[SeelingCat]

I was struggling to think who I'd choose for a female Greek leader, a civ with very few options. All the best options IMO come from Hellenistic North Africa (Hypatia, Cleopatra VII Philopater, Arsinoe II, Arete of Cyrene). I finally said screw it and went with Penelope.

On the Macedonian side, Olympias and Eurydice I could also be interesting choices, though I'm biased towards the latter since I made a mod of her for Civ6

 

[Zaarin]

On the Macedonian side, Olympias and Eurydice I could also be interesting choices, though I'm biased towards the latter since I made a mod of her for Civ6

You're right. Olympias slipped my mind; I'm less familiar with the Macedonian Hellenistic kingdom than I am the Ptolemies and Seleucids (and their nuptial crossovers into Numidia, Libya, Pontus, and Armenia--Cleopatra II Selene also crossed my mind but kind of gets eclipsed by her mother).

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

You're right. Olympias slipped my mind; I'm less familiar with the Macedonian Hellenistic kingdom than I am the Ptolemies and Seleucids (and their nuptial crossovers into Numidia, Libya, Pontus, and Armenia--Cleopatra II Selene also crossed my mind but kind of gets eclipsed by her mother).

Don't forget Cleopatra of Epirus, Alexander's sister (and his only Full Sibling, being the only other surviving offspring of Phillip and Olympias).
Married Alexander of Epirus (also referred to by the tribe: Molossians, that populated Epirus region) in northwestern Greece, and after he went campaigning in Italy she was regent of Epirus, and then Queen Regent after he died.

That makes her, for mainland Greece, the only 'legitimate' female ruler. Shame that she will inevitably be mistaken for her Ptolemaic namesake, because she would make a very good representative of the distaff side in legitimate control: was a religious leader as well as, apparently pretty good at diplomatic maneuvers.

 

[Leyrann]

Don't forget Cleopatra of Epirus, Alexander's sister (and his only Full Sibling, being the only other surviving offspring of Phillip and Olympias).
Married Alexander of Epirus (also referred to by the tribe: Molossians, that populated Epirus region) in northwestern Greece, and after he went campaigning in Italy she was regent of Epirus, and then Queen Regent after he died.

That makes her, for mainland Greece, the only 'legitimate' female ruler. Shame that she will inevitably be mistaken for her Ptolemaic namesake, because she would make a very good representative of the distaff side in legitimate control: was a religious leader as well as, apparently pretty good at diplomatic maneuvers.

Solution: Add Cleopatra VII to the game. Then add Cleopatra of Epirus.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Solution: Add Cleopatra VII to the game. Then add Cleopatra of Epirus.

I think having two Leaders in the game differentiated only by a number would be potentially a source of major confusion to gamers. Better, I think, to stick to one Cleopatra, one Bourbon Louis, one Prussian/German Frederich, one Russian Ivan at a time, no matter how many good multiple choices there are among them.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I was struggling to think who I'd choose for a female Greek leader, a civ with very few options. All the best options IMO come from Hellenistic North Africa (Hypatia, Cleopatra VII Philopater, Arsinoe II, Arete of Cyrene). I finally said screw it and went with Penelope.

Ariadne for the sneaky Minoan connection...x

 

[RedCourtJester]

I think having two Leaders in the game differentiated only by a number would be potentially a source of major confusion to gamers. Better, I think, to stick to one Cleopatra, one Bourbon Louis, one Prussian/German Frederich, one Russian Ivan at a time, no matter how many good multiple choices there are among them.

That is an issue that I think really hurts a few leader's chances, but even VI kind of skirted around it: Peter and Pedro, Joao and John. I'm really hoping it is set aside at some point, because as long as we are afraid of leaders having similar names we will never see Elizabeth of Russia in a Civ game.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

That is an issue that I think really hurts a few leader's chances, but even VI kind of skirted around it: Peter and Pedro, Joao and John. I'm really hoping it is set aside at some point, because as long as we are afraid of leaders having similar names we will never see Elizabeth of Russia in a Civ game.

I think (but admittedly, this may be a product of my familiarity with many of the characters) that using the original form of the name, as long as it isn't totally unrecognizable, would go a long way towards making the names distinctive.

So, for Elizabeth of Russia - Elizaveta Petrovna

- This would work even better because most of the English-speaking gaming public are totally unfamiliar with her in the English form of her name, Elizabeth

And since Cleopatra VII is the accepted form of the Ptolemaic's name, Alexander's sister could be rendered as Kleopatra, the transliteration of her Greek name.

On the other hand, there isn't much we can do with the 18 or more French Louis's except number them . . .

 

[dagriggstar]

I did a roleplay through of France a long time ago and just used phrases like “it is the time of Louis the insert nickname here”.

 

[RedCourtJester]

I think (but admittedly, this may be a product of my familiarity with many of the characters) that using the original form of the name, as long as it isn't totally unrecognizable, would go a long way towards making the names distinctive.

So, for Elizabeth of Russia - Elizaveta Petrovna

- This would work even better because most of the English-speaking gaming public are totally unfamiliar with her in the English form of her name, Elizabeth

And since Cleopatra VII is the accepted form of the Ptolemaic's name, Alexander's sister could be rendered as Kleopatra, the transliteration of her Greek name.

On the other hand, there isn't much we can do with the 18 or more French Louis's except number them . . .

I wouldn't mind this at all (actually it would please my OCD greatly), but unfortunately Civ has been very inconsistent in their use of exonyms/endonyms.

I feel like certain leaders like Louis, Henry, Wilhelm, and Ivan should just have skin-swaps like the Koopalings in Smash Bros. Which Louis? Whichever Louis you want him to be.

 

[Leyrann]

I wouldn't mind this at all (actually it would please my OCD greatly), but unfortunately Civ has been very inconsistent in their use of exonyms/endonyms.

I feel like they're slowly moving more towards endonyms.

Who knows, perhaps one day we'll have Willem van Oranje instead of William of Orange. (probably not in this instalment though, I'm not really expecting a Dutch leader at any point)