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Which Government is the best?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by mikezang, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. mikezang

    mikezang Pegasus

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    I started to play C3C, there are two new goverments, I want to get some suggestion, what government is the best or better with situation?
     
  2. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

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    Of the new ones or of all of them?

    Republic is clearly the best of all of them: Low WW, trade bonus, and controllable corruption. Also, in C3C, you get unit support too!

    Of Fascism and Feudalism, you can't compare them. Feudalism is for empires of small towns. Fascism is for medium sized warmongering states.
     
  3. mikezang

    mikezang Pegasus

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    How about communism?
     
  4. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

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    Communism is great, but usually, by the time I get it, the game has been decided.
     
  5. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    Democracy is good if you don't build any hospitals in your cities, so you decrease war weariness. The high production that goes with Democracy can easliy make up for the loss of population, and if you keep lux at about 30%, you get all of the best attributes of the government.
     
  6. slightlymarxist

    slightlymarxist Comrade

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    My vote is for Communism (look at my sig... :mischief: )

    Since my empires tend to get very large and clustered by the time I gain access to Communism, I ALWAYS switch to it save extreme circumstances - i.e. I haven't been successful and if I'd warmonger now I'd get crushed by my nasty neighbors; in which case I go for Space Race by Democracy or Republic. And plenty of Spies.

    If Religious: Feudalism. Extremely useful for my playstyle. Yep, tightly-packed towns + hordes of Warrior garrisons = Gigantic upkeep unless Feudal. When I get more Cities (7+) than towns, I switch to Monarchy.

    If I'm not Religious, I wait a bit in Despotism and then switch directly to Monarchy.

    I never liked Republic or Democracy! The trade bonus is nice, but... units are sooo expensive... and I want them to do MP duty... :(

    So... Communism, Feudalism/Monarchy for me!

    But it really depends on how you play. I play VERY aggressively, always build swarms of warriors/archers/spearmen/whatever and raze my neighbors first chance I get, so I can colonize MY continent without interference, then switch to Communist, industrialize and go after the other continent :D (or build Spaceship if I'm feeling lazy).

    Don't get me wrong, Republic is a great government. Just not for ME.

    I don't think there is a "best" government, although some are more situational than others.

    EDIT: Oh, and I almost forgot: Being able to pop-rush temples, barracks and units in distant cities is totally invaluable, and you can only do this in Feudalism and Communism (and Despotism)... Money can be used for other things ;)
     
  7. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    i say democracy. i've said it before, i'll say it again. democracy dosen't look very appetizing because of the 0 free unit support and war wariness. The commerce bonus is HUGE! say a 13 size city, minimum metro in fascism gets you 10 free units. in democracy, each square gets a bonus, so you get 13 more from the bonus! but it dosen't end there. mrktpl's, bnks, stk xch's, lbr's, uni's, and research labs make it much bigger. if that city had a mrktpl, bnk, and stk xch that 13 turns into 38! luxury slider at 20% is more than enough to kill war wariness, so it leaves 30. you could say that minimum sized democracy metros give you 30 free unit support! WOW!!! :goodjob:


    don't forget about minimul corruption. republic is second best, but the free unit support isn't enough to make up for the 2 gold per unit. if you want any chance of winning on diety or above, you will need twice the # of units than you could support in republic, and if you have more than twice as many, democracy is more efficient. :D
     
  8. mikezang

    mikezang Pegasus

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    I didn't know Micro Management one month ago, although I have been playing this game since Civ1 :blush:

    After I am good at Micro Management for city now, I agree that 'Democracy' might be the best government.
     
  9. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Democracy/Communism seems to be the best. Republiuc is also really good as well. The others are weak governments or situational.
     
  10. slightlymarxist

    slightlymarxist Comrade

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    Yes, but don't forget the MP duty. Four garrisoned military units = four less unhappy faces, so that's effectively 10+4 = 14 gold, to be precise :p

    You're right about metros though, which is why I think Fascism is probably the least valuable Government. You'd have to be REALLY underdeveloped to benefit from it. Playing catch-up warmongering it might be good with those 200% Workers and extreme unit support I guess, but if you're that far behind you'd be crushed by your neighbors anyway...

    Of course, I never let my cities grow to Metro size so for me it's all moot :D

    (Except the core and Capital, obviously.)
     
  11. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    The thing is, while many governments might be better in some situations or late in the game, Republic is in just about all situations just as good or almost as good as the other best government for that situation.

    Yes, democracy is better if aren't fighting and communism might be better for large empire. However, you really don't want to swich governments twice if you are not religious. Therefore, if you are not religious, Republic is the only government to think about.
    It is available early, it is the best in most situations and close to the best in the remaining situations.

    If you are religious, you can choose to swich twice, but choosing monarchy first like many people do i don't think is a good idea. First of all, some weird things are needed for monarchy to be better than republic. Just having an army and some wars or having few luxes is not enough to justify monarchy over republic. Also, i think when choosing monarchy you risk adjusting your game towards monarchy and end up getting republic either much later than you could/should or not at all and you thus give up on the very good commerce bonus of republic.
     
  12. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    No, if you put 4 MP in your cities, that takes 4 units from the battle field.
    You are counting the same thing twice. You count free unit support as gold and you count the units as gold because they can serve MP.

    Under PTW republic you get 13 commerce to support 9 units in the battle field and pay 4 for happiness. (counting no markets that would turn the commerce in 20 gold)
    Under Facism, you get 10 unit support to support 6 units in the battle field and 4 MP.

    Also, under republic if you don't have the units, you get gold. under facism, if you don't have the units, you have unused unit support.
     
  13. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    You should win long before demo is available. Republic rules. Also on deity or above.
     
  14. gunkulator

    gunkulator Emperor

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    Republic is clearly the most flexible gov't. You can fight a war, garner high commerce, have good production with fairly low corruption, rush with gold, and then you even get some unit support. Since I tend to want all of these things at some point in the game (war, high production, high commerce, rush buildings, enough units to keep the AI at bay), I stick with Republic the whole game as a non-Religious.

    Monarchy has rush buying - but unit support is worse than despotism and corruption is bad
    Feudalism has great unit support - but really that is all it has going for it.
    Democracy has high commerce - but not that much higher than Republic and WW makes fighting very tricky
    Communism is great for domination - but it comes too late to make a difference
    Fascism is great for unit support - but also too late.
     
  15. slightlymarxist

    slightlymarxist Comrade

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    Not if you use Warriors. Mind you, I rarely upgrade ANYTHING. I wouldn't be so stupid as to upgrade stuff whose purpose is to just sit there and keep citizens down ;) . I can't afford it either. I just re-produce new stuff.

    No. Look here - you get free unit support for the units AND the units remove unhappy faces AS WELL. I'm not counting the same thing twice. Effects stack. The units doing MP duty in away from the battlefront are horribly obsolete and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the battlefield anyway.

    Yes, and I agree with you - Fascism is of very limited use. Communism is normally way better.
     
  16. slightlymarxist

    slightlymarxist Comrade

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    Great unit support is a pretty big deal IMO.
     
  17. Tank_Guy#3

    Tank_Guy#3 Lion of Lehistan

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    Personally, I think it depends on what you are trying to accomplish in the game. Monetarily I would choose democracy or a republic. If you are a warmonger (like me) I would stick with communism. I only have Civ 3 vanilla, so I don't know the other government similar to communism.
     
  18. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    "No. Look here - you get free unit support for the units AND the units remove unhappy faces AS WELL. I'm not counting the same thing twice. Effects stack. The units doing MP duty in away from the battlefront are horribly obsolete and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the battlefield anyway."

    By using your free units for MP, you do not benefit from the free support for other purposes. So if you still count those free units then you DO count them twice.

    I even gave you a little example calculation, i don't think i can make it much clearer anymore. It is not THAT hard to understand is it ?
     
  19. gunkulator

    gunkulator Emperor

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    Sure, but again my point is that Feudalism is a niche gov't whereas Republic is more flexible. You're not going to be building wonders, marketplaces, banks, libraries and universities with Feudalism. Neither can you expect large amounts of commerce or big productive cities to crank out knights and muskets. Yes, you can have quite a lot of units in Feudalism - cheap ones anyway. And yes, you can often win that way, but really it is your only path to victory.

    In my current game, I have the misfortune of not having any iron and I just managed to wrestle a source of horses away from my neighbors, the Babylonians. Unfortunately, it is the end of the ancient era so the Babs will soon have pikes and knights while I will have spears and horses. Eventually, I'll have trebs and longbows but that's still no match for iron units. Even twice the number of horses and longbows will get slaughtered. Can't attack using a slow stack with trebs when all I have is spears defending.

    Feudalism is worthless to me. Gobs of old crappy units aren't going to help me. Although I had hoped to get iron, I just found their source via a galley and it's way too deep in their land. Thankfully with Republic, I can switch gears. I can't attack but I can defend: walls, barracks and 2 deep culture mean I get to bombard and take the first shot at any attacker. The Babs are the kings of culture and science and I only made things worse triggering their GA during my offensive. They don't have Republic (yet) but I do. I'll sue for peace and with good trading, I should be able to stay on par in the science game while I head towards gunpowder and pray I have a source. What I need now is commerce, growth, production for infrastructure and some unit support to keep the Babs at bay. And guess what. Republic has all of those things.

    Feudalism is geared towards one type of gameplay. If, for whatever reason, it doesn't work out, you're kinda stuck. You'll be way behind in science with bunches of old units and small towns.
     
  20. Marcus Cicero

    Marcus Cicero For I am "Thursday!"

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    I am a builder player, I prefer to build and research to warmongering early, so my fav. is Republic, the benefits outweigh the problems in my opinion.

    But, then again, I don't play alot of Single Player, so my opinion my not be very accurate.
     

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