Which Gov't?

[kgkia33]

Before you tell me, this is how I like to play..

I go to war a lot, whether it's for territory or resources, whatever. But I do go to war a lot. I've tried Democracy and I f-ckin' hate it, every single one of my cities went into civil disorder the same turn I went to war. I can't have that.

I would go with Communisn but all I hear in these forums is that it's a joke, worse than despotism.

So which gov't is best for a warring player?

 

[Ihmotep]

I dunno...that only leaves Monarchy and Republic

 

[coup d'etat]

My favorite thing to do is go monarchy for the beginning of the game, conquer 2-4 civs depending on my position and luck, then work towards a democracy and Universal Suffrage. I usually work towards Military Tradition and trade for democracy. Sometimes I'm ahead enough in tech where I research democracy myself. By the time I have democracy, I'm usually finishing up a war with some civ that is down to 2-3 cities. If I'm not, I make an effort to finish it up quickly. Then I switch to democracy and shift to hardcore research mode. I usually beat or tie the computer to industrial age, and beat the computer to Industrialization. I often will palace pre build for Universal Suffrage because I feel it is extremely important for a warring civ (monarchy doesn't cut it anymore, and communism... well I have yet to develop a useful strategy involving communism). So then my next goal is to get Theory of Evolution, it's important if not vital in getting a clear cut tech lead on the computer at the beginning of the industrial age. Between industrialization and theory of evolution, I'm usually able to trade up to communism and build police stations in my core cities. I usually re-enter the cycle of war about midway through the industrial age, using infantry and artillery at first and then switching up to mass bombers and tanks.

Women's Suffrage and Police Stations usually prevent a whole lot of war weariness... I'm not sure if Democracy is more susceptible to War Weariness than Republic, so if you are into waging longer wars republic might be better. After my transition to industrial, when I wage war after that wars are usually fairly quick, 3-4 turns or less... I take some cities and negotiate peace. I've had games where I've been able to keep at war long enough to finish off 2 civs without any War Weariness on Regent.

I used to use republic for my switch and have never had huge problems with war weariness on regent. Using democracy is newer to me, I find it's really useful for early industrial when it comes time to landscape your nation with rails (workers work faster). Although I get lazy most of my games and win through space race, I think this type of strategy would still be sound for a domination or conquest type of game. My experience with Democracy as a gov't is limited I'm speculating a little bit, but I think police stations and Women's Suffrage will do a whole lot towards keeping a civ content while reducing an AI civ's competitive edge, keeping you ahead of the game.

I'd appreciate any comments anyone has about the differences between republic and democracy as war-time govs. I think the important part is that you really hafta aim at Women's Suff.

Hopefully i didn't exclude any major points, this post is getting long and my mind is wandering...

 

[DaveMcW]

I always tell my governors to manage moods during the war to keep the cities out of disorder. When I notice there's too many entertainers I bump up the luxuries a notch; when they get to 30% or 40% it's time for peace.

Republic is all you need as a non-religious civ. Hopefully you gave up the religious attribute to gain industrious, so worker speed isn't an issue. War weariness doesn't get bad unless you are losing the war, or have been fighting a long time.

As a religious civ you can switch Democracy-Monarchy-Democracy at the cost of two turns anarchy. For a short war, raise the luxury rate and try to blitz your enemy as fast as possible. If you do it right the luxuries cost less than the anarchy.

 

[Tassadar]

All the poeple who said communist suck dont understand how it work, beleive me, in industrial time, with about 18-20 city size 12 on a standard map, i am able to produce panzer in 2 turn in each city and wage war as i wish. A far away city with iron work ( with iron and coal ) was very productive under communist but suck under democraty.


I had hover dam and factory in each city.

I had a courthouse and police station in each city.

I dont built ICS style, i built only very good city and not to much over # optimum city ( which 16 on standard map), so about 24 city is maximum i will reach, i raze everything else, i will keep only 1 city on other continent to export ressource like luxuries ( built coloni). This is because corruption under communist is affected only by # city you got, not by distance from capital ( or fp) like other governement. Monarchy will realy suck as soon as your cities is far from a palace, while commi rule.


Use force labor only if you choose to capture an a.i. city ( usualy with ressource or for ressource exportation ), and kill the foreigner to built a harbor ( disaband a units and pop rush is very good). 4 military police will keep them contented.

Once you control about 5 luxuries, sell temple,sell cathedral ( no need for religious in communist) , a marketplace and 5 luxuries+ 2-3 military police will keep everybody happy or content because you dont need to fight war weariness. Income is much much better than despotism.

 

[UknowsI]

I always go for despotism-republic-democracy as fast as possible. Are the other government like monarcy any usefull? I have never seen the need for monarcy when you can use republic.

 

[Rone/]

Going with a free government is always good because it gives you an excellent economy. And once your economy is to your pleasure, build up your military to the moon and a Democracy will still be able to hold up a strong economy. Communism could be good for a war time civilization but I'd rather go with a Monarchy. Same unit costs and your people are happier with you in a Monarchy meaning a better economy, and a good economy is the key to cultural and diplomatic success and a strong army.

 

[Tassadar]

If i need to wage an early war ( i need it most of the time), then i choose despotism to monarchy and i conquiere my continent ( it mean razing most of a.i. city, i will keep only a few good one ) with knight. So it mean a long war ( 50-60 turn ) and i dont want to deal with war weariness. This early war will give me a few great leader ( for forbiden palace rush and a few wonder like sun tsu and sistine chapel), land to colonize and plenty of stategic ressource. Then i switch to democraty until i got panzer ( or tank ) and flight. Then i switch commi and conquiere the whole world. At this point i usualy have a tech lead ( on regent ) because i have about 20 city size 12 with all improvement and i do my own reaserch, i only trade luxuries most of the time.

So if i resume;

1.- Conquiere your continent as a monarchy. A strong monarchy will go through medieval era without problem ( or at least half of it)

2.- Once # 1 is accomplish, settle and prosper as a democraty.

3.- Conquiere the whole world as a communist with industrial time weapon ( tank,bomber, battleshipe )

 

[Lord Wyvernil]

It all depends upon your strategy: war or peace.

For peace, Democracy is a no-brainer.

For war, it gets a bit trickier.

Communism has the advantage of being able to produce units and improvements in faraway cities, but doesn't have the economic push of a Republic or Democracy. You can also use the "lose a population point to instantly build a unit" trick to mass-produce armies quickly.

Democracy gets the biggest economic boost, and workers will be able to develop high-production cities faster (meaning a bigger army), but war weariness can be a killer.

Republic is somewhat more balanced. It has better economy than a communism, and less war weariness than a Democracy. This means that certain improvements or wonders (like Universal Suffrage or Police Stations) can make war weariness only a minor factor (maybe even a non-factor if you have enough happiness-boosting improvements or wonders).

But the corruption can be a downside to Republic or Democracy, since faraway cities become almost useless unless you rush-build a harbor (if they're coastal cities), and even then don't produce to their potential.

For war, it's really a toss-up between Communism or Republic w/ Universal Suffrage.

In this case, probably Republic would be the best choice, since with the right wonders it allows for both war and peace (if you're a religious civ, you can switch governments quickly, so you can change governments if you're planning a war).

 

[coup d'etat]

I'd really be interested in seeing a communist state produce tanks in 2 turns, every time I've tryed using communism the production in my capital is nearly halved (with police station and courthouse on monarch difficulty)... I admit I have no done any extensive study on communism's effects and how to use it 'properly', but it seems to be almost a total waste unless you are relying on the the utility of espianoge missions. I'm usually ahead in tech by the time communism comes around so I'd like to stay ahead, with Democracy. The sheild production gained in my outer cities does not come close to cancelling out the production lost in my core cities... I could possibly see this working as a late game strategy where you have hospitals and all your cities are very large...

I see a possible advantage with larger cities since you can load them up with troops to keep from rioting, and communism will pay for you army... it seems for communism to be most effective you need to have all improvements in all cities and have huge populations in all those cities...

Tassadar I'd really be interested in seeing a save of your use of communism mid-late industrial age, if possible... I imagine it'd be quite educational.

Let me add that in most cases where I've done a switch to communism, I've had a decently placed Forbidden Palace with about 40-70 cities overall, usually about 20 of those are at 90%+ efficiency with populations 12 before I have sanitation, or ~20 if its a game where I do have sanitation.

 

[kgkia33]

Posted by Lord Wyvernil:
This means that certain improvements or wonders (like Universal Suffrage or Police Stations) can make war weariness only a minor factor (maybe even a non-factor if you have enough happiness-boosting improvements or wonders).

I thought Police Stations were only able to be built by Communist civs?

 

[Bamspeedy]

Police Stations can be built in any government.

Corruption also increases as you go up in difficulty level. Whether this makes communism look better in some games compared to others, I don't know. There had been a few other posters who had posted some games when their civ was a communist, and their cities weren't doing too bad at all. But those games were on Chieftain. Deity allows you 30% less cities for the 'optimal #' (look in the editor under Difficulty levels).

It's been said before, one reason communism doesn't work is that all the other preceeding governments are set up so that you have a productive region around your palace. So naturally all the cities by your palace have many improvements in them, and the far away ones have hardly anything. And this is why it looks so terrible right after you switch to commie. I think I may just add a new government to my mod. Same corruption as communism (there is only 1 setting for 'communal corruption', but perhaps give it a tile penalty and less mp/free unit support, so communism would still be an improvement. This would allow me to have a government that is easier to set up for the switch to communism.

 

[Spade7]

its important to build a forbidden palace in communism. if u have been saving it for a certain place and you dont excpect to use communism very long then you can wait but if your always gonna use communism then its very important to build it.

 

[Minmaster]

communism is awesome if you have a huge empire. no distance corruption!

 

[Bamspeedy]

That's what they say "a huge empire is great for Communism". But in reality it just isn't so. Maybe if you have all your cities spaced far apart it will work. But in reality, on a HUGE map with over 100 cities, every city will produce about 3 uncorrupted shields each (or less).

 

[GerrardCapashen]

In addition, which government you want depends not only on how often you go to war, but how long you go in between wars. If you have constant warfare for most of the game, Democracy and Republic are just impossible governments to use. However, if you like to have a few fast blitz wars against each enemy, taking another set of cities each time, you should consider taking a Religious civilization to switch quickly between Democracy for production of troops and Monarchy/Communism (depending on the situation) to use those troops.

 

[DaveMcW]

Republic is quite good for constant wars, as long as you are winning them all. My typical strategy is to go to war with a backwards civ, smash their inferior units, use the cities to research techs faster, smash the next backwards civ, etc.

Once I get a tech lead in Republic it's only a matter of time before I win.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by coup d'etat
I'd really be interested in seeing a communist state produce tanks in 2 turns, every time I've tryed using communism the production in my capital is nearly halved (with police station and courthouse on monarch difficulty)...

Tassadar I'd really be interested in seeing a save of your use of communism mid-late industrial age, if possible... I imagine it'd be quite educational.

Let me add that in most cases where I've done a switch to communism, I've had a decently placed Forbidden Palace with about 40-70 cities overall, usually about 20 of those are at 90%+ efficiency with populations 12 before I have sanitation, or ~20 if its a game where I do have sanitation.

.

40 city on standard map is about triple #optimun city, that s why you got so much corruption, like i said dont use ICS ( infinite city sprawl ). Forbiden palace doesnt mean anything under commi, because distance mean nothing, only # city you have over optimum, 70 city on stad map, forget commi. Anyway it give nothing to have so much city.

I dont have a save right now, but try something with your game, disband city until you reach about 20 cities, mine until you got no more exess food, built factory and power plant and i am sure you will got more than 50 shield net per city ( it mean panzer in 2 turn).

The key , again, is not too much city, like bamspeedy, 100 city, thats crazy, i said OPTIMUN city, then you will loose only 4-5 shiled on 60 in every city.

 

[black_adder2]

Republic is very tenable IF you have both:

a) Universal Sufferage
b) Police Stations in all your 12+ cities

And of course all other happy pills too boot from temples to lots of luxury trade.

Otherwise use Commienism or Monarchy.

Either way, do not use Demo, as you already know, UNLESS you go with a Religious socierty.... Religious and Militartistic sounds right up your alley...

 

[Minmaster]

tass, i think he meant to build the FP in communism if you plan to change govt again later. it is much better if you actually build the FP in a far away city to do it in communisum because of the lack of distance corruption. i think he meant you should switch to communism to build the FP for that reason. of course if you have a leader to rush it with then its no problem.