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Which is better Drill or Combat

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by civ_king, Feb 25, 2009.

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Which is better Drill or Combat?

  1. Drill is beter

    5.3%
  2. Combat is Better

    53.7%
  3. Drill needs a Buff

    25.3%
  4. Combat needs a buff

    2.1%
  5. Drill needs a nerf

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Combat Needs a nerf

    3.2%
  7. They are equal

    34.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Demus

    Demus King

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
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    962
    combat is better for units of equal strenght, since you win more battles. Drill is better for units significantly stronger, since you recieve less damage from fight you're sure to win anyway. Flanking is better for units significantly weaker (horsemen/horse archers), since it weakens the defender without losing the unit.

    But in general, let's face it: once you've got eighter combat or drill, you're bound to get the other one as well, simply because you're not that likely to lose that unit anymore.
     
  2. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    what others said: drill is useful only after you get some combat to be stronger than opponents. so yeah, I think combat is still better.
     
  3. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    It has already been said that they serve different purposes, I will therefore assume you mean for winning a single, initially equal, combat.

    One first strike chance is 50% of a first strike.
    One first strike alters the odds about the same as a 7% increase in combat strength.

    Hence, Drill will "convert" to the following strengths:
    3,5%,
    7%,
    7%,
    14%.

    Since the Combat promos are beefed up in FfH (20% instead of 10%), I would say that combat would do more for you. Then again, when facing inferior opponents, Drill works wonders for your "flawless rate" (odds of taking no damage at all).
     
  4. zup

    zup Emperor

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    drill 4 + city raider 3 is nice too for busting out the last remaining defenders once you tsunamispam them to death.
     
  5. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

    Joined:
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    16,368
    Maybe no buffs to it but give it something like Heroic Bowman or something, 3 more first strikes so basically a drill V it would make it more delicious and march after drill III
     
  6. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    Actually the
    part isn't really true. I read some extensive guide on first strikes and if you for example have 4 first strike chances, there is a 25% chance you will get 1 of them, 25% you will get 2 of them, etc...
    And how do you compare a first strike to 7% str? If a first strike hits, in an equal battle it lowers the enemies hp by 20%.
     
  7. zbelg

    zbelg Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    159
    This is the way I look at it. Drill, for both the first strikes and blitz, is great if you've got a smaller (but superior) army and you're just trying to plow through a weak horde that's obsolete or weakened from collateral damage. Combat is better if you're going up a real challenge and you need more muscle.
     
  8. Sephi

    Sephi Deity

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    :goodjob:
    Here is also a good guide:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7720659#post7720659

    Diamondeyes numbers are correct as long as the units have the same strength. A warrior with drill 3 has a ~50+3.5+7+7 % Chance against another warrior.
     
  9. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

    Joined:
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    It seems it really does need a buff
     
  10. Capn Charlie

    Capn Charlie Chieftain

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    96
    Really, if they'd just add drill III as a possible prereq to march, and guardsman to drill IV, I'd call it good. Raider on drill IV, that would just be perfect, but I've learned to live without perfect.
     
  11. hiphopin

    hiphopin Warlord

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    I agree that drill still needs a buff even with the new defencive strikes, Anathema's suggestion IMO is fantastic, it is much more reasonable than what the system is now and I believe it would balance things much more evenly.
     
  12. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

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    in ur empire, takin ur cities
    Drill is for my hero units that need to be able to murder hordes of inferior troops on the defensive or pick apart defenders without risking getting knocked down to a hazardous level.

    Combat is for my shock troops - the first guys to go in and do the most damage.
     
  13. Zobo

    Zobo Chieftain

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    Mar 1, 2008
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    Finland
    Drill is more specialized.. I use it on anybody who wants blitz, defensive strikers and mimics..

    Make.. UP! Make... DOWN! AGAIN, YOU MAGGOTS! DO YOU WANNA MIME FOREVER?

    Ahem... sorry.

    Mimics learn combat by winning, seeing as most ai units tend to have that.

    I think despite drill being worse than combat for winning a fight, I still like pie.
     
  14. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    In a recent game I had Valin and did exactly this as I have done before. I also popped an adventurer from a hut and made him a Champion. After getting the Champion CR3 and March (+ a few more promos), I ugraded him to a Knight later in the game. The Adventurer/Knight was much more useful than Valin in the end game with the same 5 movement, blitz, etc. but also having CR3 and March to round him out. Higher base strength as well.
     
  15. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    I like that there's a random event in which - I can't recall the details or wording - your archers are given a free Combat I promotion (both existing and new units) because of "new training" or " new bow" is invented "increasing your Archers' combat strength".

    Helps me out in particular because my Ljosalfar archers I usually give Drill promos, so they can use the free Combat promo.
     
  16. Diamondeye

    Diamondeye So Happy I Could Die

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    I believe it is solved by cointoss; each FS has a 50% chance of triggering. Basically:

    Amount of first strikes: Max hits % chance/ max hits -1 % chance/ ... / ... / 0 hits % chance


    1: 50/50
    2: 25/50/25
    3: 12,5/37,5/37,5/12,5
    4: 6,25/25/47,5/25/6,25
    5: 3,125/15,625/31,25/31,25/15,625/3,125

    etc.
     
  17. notque

    notque Artificially Intelligent

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    Combat, because there's a bug in the code concerning drill. Not really a bug, but it overemphasizes the power of someone with drill on defense, and makes them the defender even if there's a better defender in the stack.
     

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