Discussion in 'World History' started by JJP, May 23, 2003.
Which is worse communism or fascism?
I think they both are awful.
Well gee, here I am, a corpse lying in some ditch, and it is of deepest concern to me at this point whether the person who put the bullet in my brain was a left- or right-leaning extremist. It makes all the difference.
They are indeed both horrible.
They're both awful, but communism is worse (I did vote for "both awful")
In fascism, you may get shot because of your race or political ideology.
In communism, you may get shot because of your race or political ideology, plus the odds are you'll be worked to death or starved to death.
im sorry if this may sound rude but have u ever heard of the Holocaust? u kno the concetnration camps that the fascist Nazis set up? there ppl worked to death, got sick to death, or were immediately sent to the gas chambers or furnaces! true, in Germany it was called Nazism, in ITALY it was called Fascism, but even if they were slightly different from each other, they were overwhelmingly cooperative w/ each other and basically walked all over Europe hand-by-hand (but most of it was obviously Germany). yes, communism is really really bad, too - its basically just a left-wing version of fascism/nazism. but, under communism, they didnt kill ppl as much because of their race (maybe for a short while under Stalin they may have) - they onyl basically wanted to kno if/whether you supported the gov't. u only had to say "yes im completely in line w/ the gov't's policies" and u were almost home-free. race was almost never an issue under communism. under Italian fascism, it was indeed the Italian race that was glorified but the actual gov't-supported/sponsored racist repression never happened in Italy until the late 1930s - and that was just to appease Hitler and the targets were the Italian Jews, obviously. Under Nazism, which I think is just a "sister' ideology of Fascism, racism was sponsored and supported AND encouraged by the gov't from Day One. it was not only political views/ideology that mattered when the fascists/nazis were in power. u could say ur completely supportive of the gov't policy, but then they take a look @ u and if u dont have blonde hair, blue eyes, and/or tall height, then they ask u what race u r - if ur not German (or in Italy, Italian) then chances are they'll say "ur not a real Aryan!" and boom! ur dead.
I, for example, would be much safer under Communism than Fascism or Nazism. I'm kinda tall, but not "tall enough", but i most certainly do not have blue eyes nor blonde hair. I'm Polish, so I'm a Slav, and the Nazis constantly called the Slavs an inferior, subhuman race meant only for enslavement!
but I vote (or if I WOULD b able to vote) in this poll, i'd probably still say "both awful".
i pressed "submit post" too many times. ignore this one, too.
And I thought simply double posting looked bad...
I thought that rmsharp covered that you would likely die due to your race or ideology in fascism.
Perhaps you have heard of Stalin's camps? Or the Invasion of Czekoslavakia? Or the Vietnam war (Atrocities on the side of the rebels)? Or of the millions that simply starved or froze to death of non-Stalin related means during the 'Great Patriotic War'?
Both are pretty damn bad but at least Fascism doesn't pretend to be eglitarian.
At least fascism doesn't have mass collectivizations, like the Soviet collectivizations of the 20s and 30s. A LOT of people have failed collectivizations as their cause of death.
It is estimated, that as a result of Stalin's collectivizations in the rural areas of the Soviet Union, 5,000,000 people left the countryside; half of those registered as having 'moved' to urban areas, the rest never accounted for. That is approximately 12,000,000 people, NEVER accounted for. These people have probably been 'refusers', refusing to be a part of Stalins's kolkhozes or solkhozes, and were therefore swiftly bumped off in remote camps in Siberia.
Nevertheless, I think they're equally bad, as the Fascists/Nazis perpetrated murder of almost the same magnitude.
I recall having a similar discussion with a Slovak after visiting the concentration camp Buchenwald. FYI, the nazis killed about 50,000 people in Buchenwald alone. After liberation, the camp was used by the Soviets until 1947 or 49, IIRC.
Now, the Slovak I talked to experienced the communist rule over Czechlovakia himself.
We were discussing of who was worse, the Germans or the Soviets. We came to the conclusion that, although our both subjective opinion was, that the Germans were worse, this question can never be fairly answered, because every regime which is oppressive, and under which people die for any cause, is as bad as they can get.
Both communism and fascism have caused people to die. So, which one would I consider to be worse?
I ended up giving my vote to fascism, for several reasons. When there is not a big difference in what happened in real life (both did very bad things), you can look at it at the ideological level. And now we see that even in the ideological level, fascism is "bad": killing people and discriminating them is part of the ideology, while in communism the main goal is people's happiness. That's why I would consider fascism worse.
Also, I think that fascism posses a greater thread to modern-day society. Leftists and even communists might still exist, but instead of aiming for a revolution, democracy is now part of even their idelogies. Meanwhile, fascism in the true meaning of the word still exists and actually far-rightist parties have gained more and more seats in European parliaments, in such countries as Sweden, Finland, UK, France, Austria... in Austria, far-rightists got seats in the cabinet, and because of that EU had to boycott Austria on a diplomatic level until the far-rightists were removed from the cabinet.
Ok, ideologically speaking.
Fascism - the freedom of the few and superior, which have the right to enslave the inferior, who are many.
Communism - freedom of the many ; enslaving the opressors and exploiters.
But, I am white, male, have blonde hair and blue eyes. I would probably be one of the few and deserving
well, i wasnt glorifying Stalin or saying he was much better in anyway - he was jsut as cruel, except for the fact that race wasnt an issue w/ him as much as it was w/ Hitler.
Clearly Communism is the worst of all of them. Communism killed many more people I'm afraid and not only that, the sad part is that it is still taken as a viable alternative in many educated western countries. We still have powerful Communist/Socialist parties in Europe and some even have a majority in their respective countries. As well as Communist governments in China, North Korea, and Vietnam among others.
Why is it obvious that communism is worse?
How is facism a better alternative?
Do you think that a system of government should receive credit if it is responsible for many deaths but less than alternative systems.
I explained why; Communism has killed millions more people than fascism has. And remember, we're all equating Nazism with Fascism when I believe they are two separate entities. For example, in Mussolini's Italy, there were not any racial laws until Hitler came along and forced them on the Duce.
Another thing is that fascist governments have actually worked marvelously in the past in certain countries whereas all Communist gov. have been utter disasters.
Having accepted that both forms have lead to the deaths of millions why do you feel that a fascist government desrves credit for being responsible for less deaths than communism. Surely both forms should be condemned.
In which countries and in what ways has facism been 'marvellous'?
Well, communism killed more people simply because it was longer in power. If make a cold-blooded comparison between death rates during fascism and communism, fascism wins by a long shot.
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