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Which leader is handled better by AI

Siam now is extremely solid: Tradition for extra food, coupled with his UA this gives huges cities. Then full Patronage, trying to consolidate alliances with CS - up to now everything is almost perfectly done. If as last step there was Rationalism instead of Order, I would say this is the toughest civ to face - apart from the solid start, with mild expansion, Siam goes also for some (but not too many) wonders, and will kick some butts with those unstoppable knights-elephants (in my game it was Attila who was slaughtered). Thus they had a vast empire with a solid base, tons of food, and a good plan - but then disaster strikes in the form of Order. Maybe there were happiness problems due to overpopulation, but still...

Even with the insane bonuses to happiness, the AI gets having an empire of 30+ cities and half of them been puppets and/or annexed combined with almost 50% bonus growth rate from the various sources Siam can get, gives you no alternative to Order. Perhaps Autocracy but I doubt it has the mental capacity to understand the value of courthouses and beeline them. Granted it could just open order and then go Rationalism (taking the happy bonuses as well) but you cant realistically expect the AI to do such things. On the plus side from order he gets a hefty science bonus from factories with all that burgeoning pop and makes a considerable profit by mitigating its infrastructure costs. I believe order is the best policy for the Siamese style of play.
 
Even with the insane bonuses to happiness, the AI gets having an empire of 30+ cities and half of them been puppets and/or annexed combined with almost 50% bonus growth rate from the various sources Siam can get, gives you no alternative to Order. Perhaps Autocracy but I doubt it has the mental capacity to understand the value of courthouses and beeline them. Granted it could just open order and then go Rationalism (taking the happy bonuses as well) but you cant realistically expect the AI to do such things. On the plus side from order he gets a hefty science bonus from factories with all that burgeoning pop and makes a considerable profit by mitigating its infrastructure costs. I believe order is the best policy for the Siamese style of play.

I have exactly the opposing opinion, especially if you have puppets (which he had) and not a million cities (which he had not). To start with, if you are going to build a lot of cities it is wrong - just wrong - to open Tradition instead of Liberty. And Siam doesn't build tons of cities, Kathy style, but goes relatively tall. The instant happiness bonus of order is coupled with almost useless other things (Autocracy is seriously better IMO), but Rationalism has an extremely significant side effect: if you have happiness problems, your puppets will automatically build Libraries and Universities, which is a VERY good thing (in fact, I am starting to abuse this in order to force them doing so). Thus you kill two birds with one shot - unhappiness and lack of science from puppets.
 
I have exactly the opposing opinion, especially if you have puppets (which he had) and not a million cities (which he had not). To start with, if you are going to build a lot of cities it is wrong - just wrong - to open Tradition instead of Liberty.

Debatable, seen the results of my current experiment. I have 9 cities to my human enemies three (liberty to tradition). Guess who is having more pop, gold and science.
If I win it will be either by turning the tables late, or due to military means. The go wide with liberty and forget tradition is a myth. Not only you don't get a significant boost to building more cities (one settler doesn't cut it) but in essence are having half the population in all your cities (therefore half gains) and exponential costs to culture and building maintenance (thats were order helps a bit). And also you suffer from massive unhappiness problems a tall and small empire doesn't (another go for order).
Even if we accept that Siam does it wrong for getting traditions, with the number of cities it accumulates down the road through conquest alone, it ensures a burgeoning population that will give it enormous production and science boosts. I consider Siam to be the Soviet union of CiV.

And Siam doesn't build tons of cities, Kathy style, but goes relatively tall.

That doesn't sound like the Siam I know. Honestly I have never, seen Siam run a small empire. The smallest I have seen him run is 20 cities. The largests has been around 40 with half of them been annexed. What you mean though is that he doesnt settle a lot. Yeah sure, but if you are in the neighborhood its puppet/annex time, no real difference.

The instant happiness bonus of order is coupled with almost useless other things (Autocracy is seriously better IMO), but Rationalism has an extremely significant side effect: if you have happiness problems, your puppets will automatically build Libraries and Universities, which is a VERY good thing (in fact, I am starting to abuse this in order to force them doing so). Thus you kill two birds with one shot - unhappiness and lack of science from puppets.

You Ignore some facts: Both can be taken in addition to one another, culture allowing and combine to a deadly effect: +17% science from unis, +20% from factories and +1 hap from every city plus +1 from every science building. The happiness problems will kill you till those buildings go up and it wont be the uni or library but coliseums that will be beelined, in essence making that a useless bonus till you effectively combat unhappiness, which also remove the opener bonus. A major hit. Had this not been the case we would also considered mercantilism to be a viable happiness policy (after all the AI beelines banks etc).

You forget we are talking about an AI therefore it raises two questions: Can it do what we suggest? The answer is a blatant NO. Because it cant think of those things. Given its limitation and the fact that Siam always goes wide by conquest most of the time its best to get order first or autocracy if you prefer.
As to the rest of the order tree been useless I have said my opinion on the previous post.

EDIT: I would also like to know why Auto is better than order in a vast wide empire (except the courthouse bonuses OFC).
 
About Liberty and Tradition: the point of Liberty IMO is NOT to go around building, but to save time on the early settler/worker and go for war. If you only take Liberty for the GP at the end and for the extra early settler, without war, I think Tradition fits better to the strategy. Liberty IMO is the war policy, thus it depends on how early Siam will go to war.

There are many things that matter on the evolution of play, one of them being the size of your continent/settling area. Without extra space, there was no way for Siam to get to 20-40 cities, no matter what, even after taking on Attila. That's why I can't understand how he had so severe happiness problems.

Now, on Order, Autocracy, etc., I think you completely overlook something: take FOR GRANTED he had gone full Patronage, which means we are talking about the policies from 13th onwards, not 7th onwards. A human player, who usually cares more about his culture, would probably at that stage have the realistic option of just opening Order at some point together with full Rationalism, culture allowing, just for the happiness. But Siam, with most of its' culture coming from CS, was completely unable to open more than 3 policies IN TOTAL at this stage. Of course, it is completely pathetic that after going full Patronage he abandoned his CS alliances after my money pressure - that means a complete loss of the last 3 policies of the branch. If he didn't intend to fight for allies, it would be better to not open this branch at all.

A realistic human player, but not the AI, might go at this point to Autocracy just to solve radically the unhappiness problem through Annexing/courthouses and go immediately to war, instead of standing still to fight a completely lost scientific battle. After all, after annexing you might use your cash for cheap military upgrades/rush buying in many cities, plus the culture problem in the puppets could be solved by forcing culture building. But I have no strong feelings about either of those two branches (if the Factory bonus was immediately accessible things would be different), seeing them as a last moment effort to overturn a lost game.
 
It all amounts to something I said earlier in this thread: We all have different experiences on how the AI performs due to the randomness of the game. To me Siam either is going to be N#1 threat in the game or he is going to be wiped out/reduced to a pathetic little kingdom early on. I will either try to win the space race while he is hot on my heals so speak or we will be caught in a bloody war which will be won by whomever manages to develop nuclear weapons first. There has never been middle ground.

Also in regards to his expansion I OFC talk about ample space. In whatever map that includes large bodies of water the AI is guaranteed never to do well by a large margin no matter the civ.
 
It all amounts to something I said earlier in this thread: We all have different experiences on how the AI performs due to the randomness of the game. To me Siam either is going to be N#1 threat in the game or he is going to be wiped out/reduced to a pathetic little kingdom early on. I will either try to win the space race while he is hot on my heals so speak or we will be caught in a bloody war which will be won by whomever manages to develop nuclear weapons first. There has never been middle ground.

Also in regards to his expansion I OFC talk about ample space. In whatever map that includes large bodies of water the AI is guaranteed never to do well by a large margin no matter the civ.

Yes. Think it has to do with which have a strong early verse mid setup, or both early and mid are good. Some civs need to have early war victories while Siam has a strong mid-game. So if 1-2 war like civs attack Siam they might not shine. Or if russia doesn't get enough luxuries they tend to just stall since they will over-settle/conquer until out of happy or gold. But if they do they just keep rolling. And the general randomness/phychotic behavior of who wars on who.
 
Anyone but Alexander the 'Great' of the Greeks. Every game I play he gets his butt handed to him by EVERYONE. Maria Theresa was whoopin him in one of my earlier games.
 
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