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Which Leader Pissed You Off Today?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by agonistes, May 2, 2017.

  1. Pythakoreas

    Pythakoreas Chef Tain

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    I didn't play for a long time (and I probably won't play until June because I have stuff to do) so I don't know if a patch fixed this or not.
    I always send delegations. Embassy requests were mostly refused though.
    Sending trade routes? When I play on larger maps sometimes I plain can't reach the other civ. And if that civ declares joint war out of the blue the trade is over.
    Whenever I go to the trade table for open borders or luxuries or whatever it is, the AI proposes me ridiculous deals I won't accept, probably has to do with how AI is always unfriendly to me :undecide:
    A person who's unfriendly or tries to fight others because the person doesn't know others has problems. Not very nice. (or at least by Canadian standards)
    The only instances where I have seen AI become friendly is when I can act according to their agenda.

    We've argued about this before and it seems like we're playing completely different games when it comes to diplomacy. I simply didn't have such problem in BNW. Even the aggressive G&K AI didn't act quite like this. When they confronted/backstabbed you it felt a lot more genuine.


    War weariness.... you probably got even more of that for fighting Gandhi.
    It would be cool to have a temporary truce mechanic. No war weariness for X turns and rebuild military. Back to battle again!
     
  2. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    There have indeed been made improvements to diplomacy, at the very least that they now always accept delegations and embassies when they're neutral, so maybe you shouldn't judge a game when you don't know the newest patch.

    What's more, you can also just gift open borders. Maybe not a good idea with a close civ as there'll be units blocking your units, but for those civs you can send a trade route, while the far away civs get free open borders and a permanent +3 modifier (together with an embassy that's stronger than a negative agenda).

    Also, on higher difficulty levels you always have a negative "first impressions" modifier, so you need to make sure that you get some positives to counter that.
     
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  3. Pythakoreas

    Pythakoreas Chef Tain

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    Though my complaint is, not in the details but in the whole. I don't have to look for the newest patch with what I've heard so far, the problem still isn't solved for me.

    I dislike the entire points system for diplomacy. I'm more in favor of Civ5 style. Negotiations were usually a lot more serious in V as AI imitated a human. When the AI liked you, it came forward for DoFs and showed you positive modifiers and hid the negatives. When the AI was ready to confront you the green modifiers were over. They made a serious face on the leaderscreen and I started seeing the negative modifiers my former ally didn't talk about. In Civ6 the AI shamelessly acts like a piece of code. You know what's coming out of the negotiations because how much the AI likes you depends on a... number. They put you on a spectrum of sorts and it's your job to serve them with "positive modifiers". This goes against the entire point of having an agenda system: to have an AI that acts like a human player. I won't try to please an AI over one match of Civ. After this match I have to do it all over again!

    There are already several joke comments throughout the forum about how ridiculously easy it is to go against an AI's agenda, which can crush your positive modifiers. Which means that my efforts get decimated by bad programming. Another irritating thing is the warmonger penalty. The AI retains the worst of two worlds: G&K level of ruthlessness and treachery, and BNW level of warmonger-hating. After a fight you might find yourself on a really big negative modifier you doubt you'll ever recover from. Along with wonders, (far too costly) wars became this new feature we're not going to explore a lot. We're putting away a good chunk of the game this way.


    We're going off topic for this thread but the guy who had 4 (four!) DoWs and ended up fighting only one is the perfect example of how much the AI needs further improvement. I wanted to show that these scenarios indeed happen. In these cases you can't even trade anymore. Raise an army/navy and you'll pay maintenance. Attack these guys and get warmonger hate. Make peace and you just made an army/navy for nothing.
    I ran into this situation frequently. One of the moves I pull off is waiting for the AI to come up with a peace solution 5-20 turns later.

    It's awful to get used to a design flaw.
     
  4. Kimiimaro

    Kimiimaro King

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    Civ: Spain
    Map: Island Plates
    Map size: Huge
    Difficulty: King
    Target: Religious Victory

    So, I started the game. I was in the middle of very nice island. I could scout to the two directions: West and North. I picked West. Lots of rivers and bonus resources, variety of luxuries and even Kilimanjaro. Nicest map I ever had in my civ game. I planned to be a naval superpower, so I settled my city on the coast of this paradise. Eureka to Sailing. Nice. So, I returned with scout and started scouting the northern part of island. There was a nice place with a lots of Wheat. Fine place for new city- oh, I found a neighbor! And it's Gilgamesh, hi! We exchanged delegations and then we cared about our business for some 20 turns. I planed to create my second city in that wheat, so I started building settler. I almost finished it and- wait, is that Ur? What is it doing there?! And why are there so many barbarians now?! I stopped the settler production and started creating walls and archers. Gilgamesh came with his amazing war-cart and killed wave of barbs, so I could destroy their camp. Thanks! Now, you can leave! I said you can leave! He's still there. And now, there are two war-carts! And four! Well, I've got Early Empire now, so bye! Borders are closed, but war carts are still here. I started creating archers again.

    "Why do I fight? Because I can... because Inanna demands it. Now you will know the power of Sumer!"

    What?! You treacherous muscular *bleep*! You shall regret this! I immediately attacked him with archers and continued with increasing my army, hoping it will be enough to stop him.

    About ten turns later:



    GODDAMMIT, GILGAMESH!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
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  5. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    This: by Canadian standards
    lols :lol:

    See, I'd say that more people preferred CIV's diplomacy to V's. The argument against IV's was that it was too easy to build a great relationship with another Civ and they'd almost never turn on you no matter what. Many of us found that immersive...but sure, in terms of game with only one winner, I can see the other sides point.
    V turned this on it's head, as they tried to get AI to play like people do. That annoyed players far more than IV ever had, as there was no predictability at all to what a Civ would do. Great for competition...but a complete immersion killer, in which all your efforts could go down the drain for reasons unknown.

    VI is a compromise; and unlike many compromises that please nobody; I think it is a great one. We know one part of the puzzle up front in the leaders agenda - that gives us something to work with. But the hidden agenda keeps the game interesting, adding unpredictability and makes for greater replay-ability. I just wish that Gandhi and Teddy had a greater chance of not having the same 2nd agenda most times. Even once you've figured out the second agenda, the combo of having two agenda's means that the leaders will value actions differently than if they had a different combo.
     
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  6. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    Today a city state expanded it's border and took a tile I wanted. I don't know who their leader is, but fudge that guy.
     
  7. Returning Lurker

    Returning Lurker Prince

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    What city state was it?
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It does also highlight that sending a lot of envoys to a CS close to an enemy will squeeze the enemies borders. A small thing.
     
  9. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    They redirect their expansion towards other Civ's first?
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    They seem to direct toward the best tiles with the same rules. Last night I saw Hojo could grab some niter near Jerusalem so I gave it a try and they expanded to the niter.
    I then realised as I had muskets already and 3 niter it would be a fairer fight if I traded some niter with Hojo for a while.
    His logic gates must have got clogged a bit when I then joint warred against him
     
  11. Felis Renidens

    Felis Renidens Prince

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    And if you were his only source of niter all of a sudden all his musketmen could not heal. It's a TRAP!
     
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  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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  13. Canadian Bluebeer

    Canadian Bluebeer Prince

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    The unknown civ that completed Petra when I had 1 more turn to go. GRRRR.
    (haven't met ANY civs yet this game. I have NA/SA all to myself with 3 CS)
     
  14. Kimiimaro

    Kimiimaro King

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    Squidhead

    Civ: China
    Map: Continents
    Map size: Huge
    Difficulty: King
    Target: Cultural Victory

    I'm playing as Qin Shi Huang, happily hogging every early game wonder possible (except for Mahabodhi Temple). I build tons of districts, builders and wonders, completely forgetting to build army and walls. I was hoping for good diplomatic relations with my closest neighbours. Then Pericles decides he hates me for settling too close to him after settling Argos few hexes right next to my capital. He denounces me, but I don't care and continue in building Alhambra in Xian. Then, he pulls giant army Hoplites right out from his... scroll... and attacks me from northern border and western sea. Well, I guess I'm dead. Here is a screenshot of Greek invasion force..

    Squidhead.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
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  15. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    I'm not sure who is pissing me off today. SOMEONE is buying leaders out form under me, and they're doing so on a basis other than GP points. I've been way out on the lead on scientists, merchants, and artists for a long, long time. Then I go back to look, and the guy I was headed towards is gone while someone more expensive has taken his place. Very frustrating.
     
  16. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    I'm not 100% on this, but try looking at the list of previously earned gp. It may tell you who earned whom.

    And report back if it does.
     
  17. Rosty K

    Rosty K King

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    Saladin just told me to stop converting his cities after I killed his missionary with a ship. Why that pissed me off? Obviously, we were at war, so it's like he's complaining that killing his units during the war is dishonest :D To make it even funnier, I'm Kongo.
     
  18. VTMatt

    VTMatt Chieftain

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    Civ: Aztecs
    Map: Pangea
    Map size: Standard
    Difficulty: Emperor
    Target: Domination Victory

    No screenshot, as I'm at work for a little while at the moment, but...

    Early game is going well, I'm expanding nicely, knocked off two worthless city-states near me and have a huge chunk of land all to myself. Enough so that I'll probably play some sim-city and snowball an Aztec juggernaut then DOW the whole world and steamroll them all. Which will be extremely satisfying because Brazil took out Lisbon, which is pretty close to my front yard, I had some envoys in, and is now a nice forward city for them. To top off conqueroring my friend Lisbon, the degenerate had the audacity to send a message chastising me for "picking on the weak" when I conquerored a city state, like 10 turns after he did the same damn thing.

    I'll show you picking on the weak Pedro, just you wait. :nono:
     
  19. comatosedragon

    comatosedragon Emperor

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    Monty. Such a dork. He is all friendly with me (even asks for friendship) early, around turn 40 or so I guess. I decline. My worker improves one my luxuries ... and BAM!
    instant denouncement, and inevitable DOW a few turns later. Yeah, I know the luxury thing is his agenda, but man, I needed it for the amenities, not to spite him! lol.
     
  20. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    You could of course accept the friendship, then improve the luxery resource twice and trade your second copy away to him for some gpt before the friendship expires. Gives you something like 5 gpt for 30 turns, which in the early game matters quite a bit, while also keeping him friendly.
     

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