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Which of the ORIGINAL civilizations deserve a UA/UU/UB change the most?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by The Observer, Apr 10, 2013.

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Which of the ORIGINAL civilizations deserve a UA/UU/UB change the most? (*Choose 3*)

Poll closed Jul 10, 2013.
  1. America

    135 vote(s)
    34.0%
  2. Arabia

    81 vote(s)
    20.4%
  3. Aztec

    17 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. China

    22 vote(s)
    5.5%
  5. Egypt

    10 vote(s)
    2.5%
  6. England

    25 vote(s)
    6.3%
  7. France

    38 vote(s)
    9.6%
  8. Germany

    172 vote(s)
    43.3%
  9. Greece

    32 vote(s)
    8.1%
  10. India

    244 vote(s)
    61.5%
  11. Iriquois

    16 vote(s)
    4.0%
  12. Japan

    55 vote(s)
    13.9%
  13. Ottomans

    69 vote(s)
    17.4%
  14. Persia

    10 vote(s)
    2.5%
  15. Rome

    14 vote(s)
    3.5%
  16. Russia

    22 vote(s)
    5.5%
  17. Siam

    12 vote(s)
    3.0%
  18. Songhai

    42 vote(s)
    10.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. phaethon16

    phaethon16 King

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    722
    India needs their UB changed so we can have a separate Mughal civ.
     
  2. Xichael

    Xichael Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Ontario
    Japan: Get rid of the Zero, need a production related building in a bad way.

    India: Beaten to death in this thread, should have a religious aspect.

    Ottomans/America/Greece/Germany: Should be reworked to become more relevant.
     
  3. HemlockMartinis

    HemlockMartinis Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Messages:
    61
    Agreed. A "Founding Fathers" or "Constitutionalism" UP where America's Great Writers can perform culture bombs like the original Great Artists would be a pretty neat update while preserving the expansionist theme.
     
  4. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,491
    INDIA I'd love it if they splitted India to include Mughals, but I dont see it happening. Their UA is a disaster, it cant be the only UA with a penalty. Something to give them faith on rivers and extra food would be interesting.

    Germany The opposite of their UA would be what would make sense for them, a UA that lets Germany keep a very strong disciplined military, there are tons of suggestions for a much cooler German civ.

    America Its a very boring UA, the extra sight is useful, but the tile purchase is a joke, situational at best, they could use a very strong late cultural game, or something to form strong diplomatic blocks.

    Russia Another boring land graber that fails, give Russia a straight -25% Culture cost for acquiring new tiles and redo the Krepost to either a very cool UI, or a very cheap wall replacement.

    Rome Useful UA but incredibly boring, they could certainly use more flavour.

    Japan Same thing as Rome, very useful UA, but gets really boring really fast.
     
  5. theadder

    theadder Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    334
    Location:
    Addoria
    If they did only a minor change to Rome, I'd like to see a bonus to construction in the capital. I don't like having to use the capital predominantly for basic buildings. It's a bit disappointing.
     
  6. Dai

    Dai Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    115
    Note that I don't think any of these are problematic for being too good or too bad, just that I think they could be messed with.

    India: By including a penalty, India's UA actively restricts the sorts of styles they can pursue. This makes them fairly narrow, despite their open-ended UA. With a UU and a UB that aren't particularly noteworthy and the one strategy that their UA does point to being largely messed with by game changes, I think India could really use some reworking. (Unless other game changes make their ability more awesome in other ways.)

    America: I'm not of the opinion that every civ needs to be three features that point in exactly the same direction. In fact, I think it's better if they're not. America, however, feels like four random unconnected bonuses, none of which really affect how I play the game. I want a civ choice to mess with my priorities at least a little bit, and nothing America does does that. Additionally, I feel like no UU or UB should be a late-game unit unless it's an absolute game-changer. The B17 is not. As an artifact of how the game's promotions systems work and how much aircraft benefit from promotions the B17 does end up being a reasonably powerful unit, but bombers are bombers.

    Japan: In vanilla, Bushido was insanely good and Samurai were insanely good, so it was easy to overlook the Zero as a throwaway. Bushido is still insanely good, but Samurai no longer are, leaving Japan as a civ with a great UA, an not-so-exciting UU, and a completely pointless UU. Even if the Zero wasn't a late-game UU, something that makes it immediately suspect, it's such an incredibly marginal upgrade over the fighter as to be basically meaningless regardless.

    Germany: I think that the relative weakness of the "active" part of their UU almost has a reverse halo effect on the rest of the Civ. Part of the civ's problem, I think, is that the most interesting of their abilities is kind of weak and pointless, with the bulk of what makes them any good carried by the army maintenance discount. Having a UU that's the same as the base unit but cheaper could be kinda hot, but the fact that the unit is on the world's most awkward upgrade path makes things substantially less hot - I definitely do not want to field an army of 20 lancers. The Panzer gets the usual caveats regarding late-game UUs.
     
  7. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,950
    Uhh... Neither of these things really make America bad. A visibility-upgraded scout takes up space in your army that could be used by someone that actually kills things; the main strength of that part of the UA is having siege weapons that can spot for themselves, which is huge. And building the Angkor Wat requires you to build the Angkor Wat, which is generally regarded as the worst wonder in the game by a long shot. Besides, the main use of purchasing tiles happens MUCH earlier than the wonder is even available.

    I do think that America is kind of dull but that's a problem with most of the vanilla civs. I'd like to see them changed just because Coca-colonization makes them really bleeding obvious as a civ to go specifically for the new culture victory but there really are other civs that need it more. For example, Songhai's Mandekalu Cavalry are kind of bland compared to the much stronger Cataphracts and Conquistadors. This would require a pretty simple tweak; just give them the Blitz promotion for free, like in the Mandy Cav copy the Sassanids get in the Fall of Rome scenario.
     
  8. chrisjwmartin

    chrisjwmartin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    UK
    For America, shouldn't the world's premier capitalist nation get a Trade Route bonus?
     
  9. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,117
    For America,one simple buff to them is "Receives a certain ammount of tourism everytime a Great Merchant is expanded" . That ammount would be always half of the ammount given by a Concert Tour performed by a Great Musician .
     
  10. Velex

    Velex Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    30
    America - I'd like to just buff the UA so that when you found a city, you pick up some extra tiles. A unique worker would allow the player to make quick improvements.

    UA - Manifest Destiny : +1 Sight range to land units. First tile purchase is free in each city. Tile purchasing cost reduced by 50%.

    UU - Immigrant Worker - Replaces worker. Has faster movement? Constructs roads and railroads in half the time? Cheaper? (Something to quickly improve those extra purchased tiles)

    UU - Minuteman = Minuteman.
     
  11. LordProtector

    LordProtector Digger

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2013
    Messages:
    239
    It's all about the Abilities for me.

    I really don't think America's UA is as bad as all that, just a bit boring. Just needs an little buff, keep everything about it and give America the ability to buy tiles out from another civ's territory. That would give Washington a really sexy, capitalist, Louisiana & Alaska Purchase edge. They'd have to take the great citadel diplohit, obviously.

    The extra barb gold for Songhai is a tasty little plus, but the aquatic nonsense is a waste of space. Maybe Askia did conquer cities by sailing down West Africa's rivers, but you can't do that in the game, so why is it there? Alternatively: A movement bonus along rivers? Free river trade routes? Now you're talking.

    I really think the perennial problem of India would be so easily resolved if they could work every tile in their territory. Let India flood the map and then utilise it. Makes much more sense that it's current, weird tall incarnation. An X% Ankor Wat like buff would help too, maybe for cities on rivers.

    Lastly for me is the Dutch. I really like their UA, but it's like the ugly little brother to Arabia's Bazaar, and now Indonesia with it uniques. Give the polders tulips on economics, go wild.
     
  12. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,950
    Uhh... Free Amphibious promotions is arguably the best part about Songhai. The most important thing is how you can attack over rivers with no penalty.
     
  13. ImperialChaos

    ImperialChaos President

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,397
    Location:
    United States
    America

    UA: American Dream – tourism and ideological pressure generated are doubled. Specialists provide an additional output in city with an International Trade route.
    UU: Navy SEAL – replaces Marine; starts with blitz promotion and if left idle on forest or jungle tile for more than one turn it becomes invisible to enemy units.
    UB: Mall – replaces Market; +25% :c5gold: and 5% faster :c5food: growth rate for city in which it is built.

    Cool, but kinda overpowered, update to America. UU and UB's straight from Civ IV
     
  14. Luziadus

    Luziadus Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    274
    Which of the ORIGINAL civilizations deserve a UA/UU/UB change the most?

    none!
     
  15. jye42

    jye42 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2013
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Australia
    Ottomans - There UA to capture ships is barely useful. Also keep the UA Barbary Corsairs, that has a lot of potential with the new trade routes system.

    Germany - The UA to capture units isn't very good so they are basically a less useful version of the Zulus in the coming expansion.

    Aztecs - Since G&K i have wanted sacrificial captives to gain faith instead of culture.

    Leave India alone the ability 1/2 unhappiness from city size without a drawback is too good. There ability makes them uniquely capable of building small focused empires.
     
  16. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
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    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Wait...what?
     
  17. tomtom5858

    tomtom5858 Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    320
    That's... hilariously broken. Say I have ten cities. No connections, no trade routes. Each of them has three citizens. That's ( 5:c5gold: + 1 ) * 3 * 10 * 1.25 = 225 GPT. Yeah...
     
  18. ImperialChaos

    ImperialChaos President

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,397
    Location:
    United States
    Of course it is. We are the richest nation in the world, you know. ;)

    In all seriousness, it should be nerfed to 1 gold.

    edit: Still too powerful. I'm gonna edit out that part all together.
     
  19. Erneiz Hyde

    Erneiz Hyde Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    280
    Say, would it be too powerful if India's UA stays as it is only with the double unhappiness from cities penalty negated?
     
  20. TRusheeRush

    TRusheeRush Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    'Merica
    Germany:
    Furor Teutonicus: +15% :c5strength: from Great Generals, +5% :c5production: for units and +1 :c5production: per each Barracks, Armory, etc.
    Landsknecht Cheap to produce, cheap to upgrade. Can be gifted to other Civs for :c5gold:
    Panzer Stronger Tank with Blitz promotion.

    The UA is an easy way to reflect Germany's general prowess in fighting and production power, and by the time you have Military Academies, you'll be churning out well trained units like lightning. The Landsknecht reflects the widespread use of German mercenaries. The Panzer buff should be obvious.

    China should get a different non-warmongering bonus.
     

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