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Which of the ORIGINAL civilizations deserve a UA/UU/UB change the most?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by The Observer, Apr 10, 2013.

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Which of the ORIGINAL civilizations deserve a UA/UU/UB change the most? (*Choose 3*)

Poll closed Jul 10, 2013.
  1. America

    135 vote(s)
    34.0%
  2. Arabia

    81 vote(s)
    20.4%
  3. Aztec

    17 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. China

    22 vote(s)
    5.5%
  5. Egypt

    10 vote(s)
    2.5%
  6. England

    25 vote(s)
    6.3%
  7. France

    38 vote(s)
    9.6%
  8. Germany

    172 vote(s)
    43.3%
  9. Greece

    32 vote(s)
    8.1%
  10. India

    244 vote(s)
    61.5%
  11. Iriquois

    16 vote(s)
    4.0%
  12. Japan

    55 vote(s)
    13.9%
  13. Ottomans

    69 vote(s)
    17.4%
  14. Persia

    10 vote(s)
    2.5%
  15. Rome

    14 vote(s)
    3.5%
  16. Russia

    22 vote(s)
    5.5%
  17. Siam

    12 vote(s)
    3.0%
  18. Songhai

    42 vote(s)
    10.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Dudu42

    Dudu42 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    79
    About Arabia, is not just about being competitive, imo, but also using the new trade mechanics. And the arabs should benefit from that.
     
  2. Scauthra

    Scauthra Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    America - I want to see their UA changed to fit the new ideology system and/or world congress. I also would like minutemen to cost less. It feels nicer that way.

    Egypt - The bonus does not seem amazing for what it does. I like to wonder spam some games and I don't feel like I have that much of a leg up if I do it as Egypt. I feel they should get a food or trade boost since the whole awe inspiring of Egypt always leads to their rivers and their wonders.

    Iroquois - I want the Longhouse to do more, and for it to do more I want all woods to do more for them. Instead of just being free roads, why not give them extra food from forest? While you may not have deer in those woods as a resourse, there are still animals in there that would fill the forest. So give them a +1 food on forest.

    I am terrible at game balancing. But I would like the most change out of these three.
     
  3. Novu

    Novu Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    165
    For Iroquois maybe have deer give happiness like luxury resources do.
     
  4. Ikael

    Ikael King

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    873
    One civ that I forgot about: Egypt! How can you introduce a new archeology mechanic into the game and leave Egypt out of it? I don't think that it should be remade from the ground up a la France or India, but a little bonust to archeological prospects would be in order, me thinks.
     
  5. theadder

    theadder Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    334
    Location:
    Addoria
    Perhaps some sort of bonus for industrialised civilizations looting treasures from Egypt in the late game.
     
  6. wigwam

    wigwam Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2013
    Messages:
    555
    Location:
    Berlin
    They've already got that on their UB, actually.

    Sometimes I do think Egypt deserves a change, sometimes not. Their UA is almost pointless in the hands of a human (in singleplayer)—on low difficulty levels, you don't need help building wonders; on high difficulty levels, you only build the wonders you're 100% certain you can build anyway. But it's kind of fun in the hands of the AI. Whenever I meet Egypt, I know Ramesses is going to be a pain in my ass all game long, gobbling up wonders left and right. Part of that is his AI flavor, of course, but the UA certainly helps him.
     
  7. Ikael

    Ikael King

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    873
    I think that a way to represent this would be the Egypt UB a 25% bonus to have an artifact nearby to the city with the arrival of archeology, a kind of a bonus that would cut both ways: it can help you greatly to min / max artifacts, and it would make you a prime target for foreign archeologists too.
     
  8. Blueboots

    Blueboots Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2011
    Messages:
    66
    So Arabia deals with internal (normal) trade routes, while Morocco deals with international ones? Or are they making changes to old civilizations? Otherwise, they strike me as a bit too similar early/mid game.
     
  9. Trias

    Trias Donkey with three behinds

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    594
    Why? Historically, Egypt has a pretty solid record in missing the boat on archeology on its own soil.
     
  10. ImperialChaos

    ImperialChaos President

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,397
    Location:
    United States
    I noticed Arabia is fourth on the poll, but there hasn't been much discussion on why it should be changed.
     
  11. wigwam

    wigwam Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2013
    Messages:
    555
    Location:
    Berlin
    I think we all just expect it to be changed. The current UA would at least have to be reworded for BNW, and it seems probable that they'll change it to a bonus to international land trade routes.
     
  12. Princeofnigeria

    Princeofnigeria The illustrious

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Nigeria
    For the whole "egypt should get new archeology bonus", do people really think egypt needs MORE reasons to get invaded? I mean I get historicality, but come on. At some point it's ridiculous.
     
  13. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,491
    Egypt could use more flavour thats for sure, but Im not sure an archeological bonus would be best, after all it was foreign powers doing the digging until modern times.

    They however could use something related to rivers, maybe a bonus to flood plains, or more trade revenue for cities on rivers?

    Im all in favour of adding a bit more flavour to civs with plain UA.
     
  14. pwnerer

    pwnerer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    51
    One way to fix a few Civs at once (US And Japan) would be to improve air dynamics. As it is now, fighters are pretty meh. I would love to have actual air wars with the AI. IRL airpower and control determines whether you can attack or not and can render fleets useless
     
  15. pilot00

    pilot00 King

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    917
    I still believe that Japan if chooses Autocracy in BNW with kamikaze, will be a monster with its UA.
     
  16. mposyncckh

    mposyncckh Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    73
    I think a good change would be to give Egypt a bonus in the late eras for having burial tombs because the burial tombs although still very good due to their happiness, are the only unique building to carry a negative aspect with it. The double pillage for enemies. I think that in a late era possible with the archaeology technology Egypt could get either a modest lump sum of gold for each burial tomb, gold per turn, or a free artifact for each tomb. That way if you have kept your tomb protected you get another special bonus. I feel like an artifact would be too imbalanced so lump sum sounds the best.

    Also maybe giving Egypt something special for having wonders. Nothing to much like maybe the follower belief(divine inspiration i think) that gives +2 culture for each wonder. That way you would get more for wonders and it could encourage Egypt to go to war for as many wonders as possible.

    Maybe instead of the flat 20% production discount for wonders Egypt currently has they could instead get bonus production from internal trade routes. I know that most civs that built wonders would send people to the build site to facilitate construction but I've always thought of Egypt doing it more. Also I think it would be more interesting from a game play perspective because instead of getting wonder production for free you have to chose to give up gold producing routes and have maybe a super wonder pumping city. Also the production could be used for anything but it would come later because you would need to have workshops up and running.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with the horse chariot I like it. However maybe in comparison the Huns unit should either not have free open promotion or the ability to move better in rough terrain. Compared to the Hunic Unit there really isn't anything unique about Egypt's unit.
    Edit: One: The bonus I put forth for the burial tomb at a later era would remove the extra pillage gold.
    Two: If the Hun's unit no longer had one of those two things the Egyptian unit should receive it
     
  17. Nikae

    Nikae Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    96
    Location:
    Hungary
    We can only hope for designers reading these forums, it would be really good if they did.

    Most 2 uu civs could be changed to ub-uu, either because their history is better represented that way (Ottomans, Rome) or because the uu is sort of useless (Zero, Panzer).

    As far as uas go, I think they were good without the xpacs and dlcs, but mostly with religion implemented, some of those could really be altered to reflect game diversity (India is a perfect example).

    In most cases the best thing that could be done is to add one more uu or ub to every civ, that could solve most of the balance issues, add a whole range of new diversity, all that without altering their preferred gameplay mechanics or styles. A very large part of this wouldn't even need the work with inventing new things, civ4 had unique buildings for every civ, most of those were really characteristic and unique while having an important part in the given civ's history. Good exaples are hammam, forum, royal exchange, assembly plant, citadel and the list goes long.

    As far as player feedback goes I wouldn't want changes because I know better than the designers do, I'd want it because I play a lot, and a large part of civs I never play because they are boring compared to others. This goes for most non-xpac and non-dlc civs.
     
  18. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,117
    That idea of having an UB or UI to replace the 2nd UU is not feasible to every civ,because many lack good options for that,which is the case of America,Germany,Ottomans and Mongolia . For them,the best way is to buff up their UA with an extra ability,that gets stronger on mid/late game .
     
  19. meowschwitz

    meowschwitz Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    NY
    America (especially if the Shoshone UA and exploration focus is true) could use a new niche that take advantage of the new mechanics.

    UA: Trade routes to other civs give you +1 tourism, can spend tourism on additional world congress delegates

    UU: B52

    UB: Mall, replaces Market, same economic benefits, 1 :c5culture: and +1 tourism per idealogical tenent adopted

    you'll be an idealogical master who leverages your idealogy into diplomatic victory. I don't know if this is the best idea but I think it's unique from a gameplay perspective from everything that we've seen
     
  20. Konsti

    Konsti Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    56
    The problem is that this would be very late-game based, except for that trade routes, and also, at the beginning you a) dont have many trade routes b) want to use them yourself to buil up cities c) don't know that many civs anyway
     

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