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Which of the ORIGINAL civilizations deserve a UA/UU/UB change the most?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by The Observer, Apr 10, 2013.

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Which of the ORIGINAL civilizations deserve a UA/UU/UB change the most? (*Choose 3*)

Poll closed Jul 10, 2013.
  1. America

    135 vote(s)
    34.0%
  2. Arabia

    81 vote(s)
    20.4%
  3. Aztec

    17 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. China

    22 vote(s)
    5.5%
  5. Egypt

    10 vote(s)
    2.5%
  6. England

    25 vote(s)
    6.3%
  7. France

    38 vote(s)
    9.6%
  8. Germany

    172 vote(s)
    43.3%
  9. Greece

    32 vote(s)
    8.1%
  10. India

    244 vote(s)
    61.5%
  11. Iriquois

    16 vote(s)
    4.0%
  12. Japan

    55 vote(s)
    13.9%
  13. Ottomans

    69 vote(s)
    17.4%
  14. Persia

    10 vote(s)
    2.5%
  15. Rome

    14 vote(s)
    3.5%
  16. Russia

    22 vote(s)
    5.5%
  17. Siam

    12 vote(s)
    3.0%
  18. Songhai

    42 vote(s)
    10.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    Voted India, Germany, China, America. Would've voted Arabia too, but I momentarily forgot about them.

    China imho doesn't really fit well for a warmongering civ.

    Germany is not unfitting as a warmongerer, but I find it uninspired. The UA is no longer a good idea - the Huns, Zulus would fit more for taking over Barbarian camps, mostly because they actually were barbarians.

    America is okay, but it is a bit boring. The Minuteman is underrated, the bomber is okay, the UA is there.

    India is just uninspired. Mughal Fort is mediocre at best, the unique ability isn't too good either. If I want to not have a sinlge happiness problem, I rush religion, get +happiness pantheon, +happiness religion beliefs, pagoda and there I go. Granted, getting religion isn't too easy, but if you rush Calendar and Stonehenge - you''re pretty much guaranteed to get one, esp. if you befriend a religious CS/get a religious wonder.
     
  2. bob massingbird

    bob massingbird Chieftain

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    80
    Japan.

    It's UA (Bushido, wounded unit fight as good as full health units) are underwhelming. Plus they don't have Unique building or tile that can be used in multiple eras.

    I hope they change it into something better like "Bushido: Great General can be used to create artifacts or start a Golden Age" or something like that. Japan is more than a mindless warmonger nation. Their culture is very fascinating and the CIV 5 incarnation is greatly unsatisfying.
     
  3. Viregel

    Viregel , The Rt. Hon.

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    Aztec-Ability, unit and building all come into play too early to be of use. A reference to the Triple Alliance would make them a less mad, malevolent, warmongering civ, although the AI is perfect.

    Germany-Ability is too random and too close to the Zulu. I think that it should reflect fighting on multiple fronts or Blitzkrieg tactics, although I'm not sure if that's too controversial.

    Iroquois-The ability should be changed to affect forests anywhere on the map, and the longhouse should be changed to provide a larger production bonus. I don't think that +10% production and +1 production per forest tile would be too overpowered.
     
  4. Viregel

    Viregel , The Rt. Hon.

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    Anything that isn't Roman counts as a barbarian, so any civ could theoretically have that ability.
     
  5. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

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    1,491
    Sacrificial captives is really useful early game to earn SP, the Jaguars keep their promotion, keep them alive and they remain useful for all the game. The Floating Gardens are really useful as well (even more if you have a lake near) you can get huge cities with the UB and the right beliefs.

    If anything my only problem playing Aztecs is that lakes really arent that common, its really rare that I can reap the full benefits of the UB.
     
  6. Unresolved

    Unresolved King

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    The only problem with Jaguars is that they are indeed too early. They're a warrior UU which I'm not too fond of. The only chance to build them is in the beginning of the game. You're basically giving up all early infrastructure to make several units that will eventually become meat-shields for the archer line.
     
  7. Yubnub

    Yubnub Chieftain

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    Feb 14, 2013
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    I'm confident with saying that India's Mughal fort will be replaced. The icon used for Mughal fort is the Red Fort, a new wonder. And although the icon used for the Red Fort is different from the Mughal fort, it would be odd to have a variation of essentially the same icon used for two buildings.
     
  8. MisterSaturnine

    MisterSaturnine Warlord

    Joined:
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    110
    It's strange seeing people call out for the a buff to the Aztecs since I consider them one of the most powerful Civs. Now, I'm not a Deity-level players (I tend to go for King or Emperor, depending on the kind of game I want to play), but the Aztecs are my girlfriend's Civ of choice and she tends to kick ass with them.

    Jaguars are an incredibly powerful UU if you can keep them from dying through their upgrades, which their ability helps out with. If anything, they get stronger as the game progresses. Though having a good number roaming around is very useful for farming early culture (and gold from camps), you don't need to waste early game turns on producing more than a couple since it's metal casting that obsoletes them, giving you a wide window to produce them pre-upgrade. My girlfriend sometimes wages wars solely to pillage, occupy her military, and keep the enemy from producing things other than units. If not for the jaguar's self-healing, she would not be able to do so as effectively as she does.

    As for the floating gardens, they're probably one of the best UBs. The bonus they give to lakes is incidental - the growth bonus is what really shines, and there are plenty of rivers to be found.
     
  9. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    The good thing about the growth bonus is that it is not a growth bonus. It's a bonus to your total amount of food.
     
  10. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

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    Why people hate India UA so much? It just forces you to build tall empire same way like f.e. Korean UA forces you to go science win rather, than culture. America or Japan needs fixing (buff) much more in my opinion.
     
  11. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    Yes, but India's UA used to be the only that crippled them. But seeing as Venice is now the new Crippled Civ, I guess India will remain the ol' good self.
     
  12. Viregel

    Viregel , The Rt. Hon.

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    France's (old) ability generally outclasses the Aztecs, so you might as well play as France. The Jaguar is a really good unit, but it would still be hard to keep them alive. The floating gardens, however, are one of the better buildings, but my problem with them is that there is little to help them in the late game. Culture isn't going to help, and all your Jaguars have most likely been killed. The floating gardens can help you to grow a wide empire though, so they can be useful in some ways.
     
  13. gaiko

    gaiko Warlord

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    Nah, America's foreign trade as a %age of its GDP has always been quite small. What explains America's economic growth was effectively "free" land and resources on a continental scale.

    I think the UA tried to simulate this effect, but it is weak. An alternative that would stand out ( a version of which was granted, ironically, to the new Shoshone civ in an expanded city foundation radius) would be something like the CivIV fort-generated culture border expansion. This could burn a worker as a cost. This would simulate labor scarcity in a frontier settler country. The only constraint is that fort zone expansion must be contiguous with existing cites.

    This way America can expand its borders without having to found new cities and incur the heavy happiness/culture cost. Valued hexes could be developed in advance, even outside the working radius of existing cities. New cities founded would get up and running quickly.

    Perhaps also give free roads/railroads as part of the UA. And/or ability to have workers gifted by all - not just militarist - friendly/allied CSs, simulating immigration. Anyway, America would want lots of workers!

    This sort of UA, I believe, would uniquely distinguish America in terms of playing style.
     
  14. Viregel

    Viregel , The Rt. Hon.

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    Korea's UA doesn't force them to go for science, it just makes their preferred play style science. India, however, forces you to build a tall empire by giving you negatives if you try to play differently. However, India's UA isn't the worst, but could do with some balancing out (even just -1/4 of population unhappiness)
     
  15. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

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    Yes ofc it is crippled! But only to enforce you to play them tall, and not to op it. You can try go wide, but it makes game much harder, just like it's harder to go culture with Korea. OK, I understand this scheme: you want culture with Korea -> just no UA bonus, You want go wide with India -> you are nerfed... but still I think it does not make this UA first to change. Specially when some UA are roughly underpowered. Just my opinion :)
     
  16. mintcandy

    mintcandy King

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    I would love to see that Mongolia's UA was modified to be more like what they get in the Mongol scenario to encourage players to conquer City States.

    :: ducks :: :D
     

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