1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Which real life civs won which victory conditions

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by WearyHeart, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. Andy0132

    Andy0132 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    In the hell that is my head
    If we're talking about conquests, then everybody worldwide, at one point or another, has been conquered.

    As for Kublai, his dynasty lasted for less than a century. That's around 1-16 turns on Marathon. By comparison, the vast majority of the Chinese dynasties could at least claim 2-4 centuries, if not more.
     
  2. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,179
    I'd say it only affects it if the previous culture was either lost or too much changed. Or peoples themselves, either the genetics killed off or bred out.

    I don't know the exact impact of Mongols, but I am pretty sure that if you travel to India, it certainly does not feel like London :)

    That is why I was going to add a note to Egypt from my earlier comment, but didn't want it to get too long. After Arabs swept through, Egypt adopted Islam and Arabic language. Genetically, Arabs had little impact on the area of north Africa (genetically, Berbers still Berber, Egyptians still Egyptian, etc.).

    Since then, they have been in a bit of an identity crisis. At times they have tried to identify as a part of the "Arab world" of the ME, at times they have tried to adopt European culture, and at times they have even tried to go back to a more traditional Egyptian culture including a language other than Arabic. (while it would have been so awesome if they brought back hieroglyphs, in the end it was too messy and a ton of people already speak Arabic, so they just kept the language. And of course the language would have been changed to latin characters anyway :mischief:.)

    Anyway, this is all kind of going off-topic. I won't pretend to be an expert on Egypt ('cause I'm not), but for me I get the impression that overall China culture or idea of nation has held up better throughout history than Egypt. While both have been early civilizations, Egypt is kind of squashed right in the middle of western and middle eastern influence, so it is difficult not to get absorbed by one or the other.
     
  3. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,220
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, i mean look at the germans in ww2. These guys conquered most of europe: spain, france, Portugal, poland adn many other small neighboring European countries that were later liberated by the allies. The axis had also conquered pacific ocean islands as japan and a couple oficial countries in asia also such as Taiwán or korea. They were also eventually liberated by the allies but the attempts at real world domination are true. What people could say from that is that Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler were the most evil men in the world because they killed many people in their ideologies since berlin and germany became divided for awhile, adopted order, and had iron curtain. Until usa came in and dropped the curtain and reunited germany.
     
  4. Andy0132

    Andy0132 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    In the hell that is my head
    As for China, if you go to the older part of any former capital city, hold your breath and ignore the smog, it could easily seem like it did a few hundred years ago. As you have said, it's all about identity, and China identifies with their strongest and most prosperous dynasty, the Han.
     
  5. vesp3r1987

    vesp3r1987 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    How does USA win domination victory? Most of their wars are either defending their own country or attacks against terrorists which i consider to be the real life barbarians
     
  6. HughFran

    HughFran Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    348
    Lol awww, that's so cute - referring to people with a different ideology as barbarians. Aww, that's so cute - thinking America is defending it's own country against an 'opposition' that can barely operate a machine gun let alone have the capacity to actually threaten America. Aww that's so cute - you actually think American led invasions of other countries is done to defend their own country and not for profit.

    Okay, I think I'm done patronizing.....
     
  7. vesp3r1987

    vesp3r1987 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    dude i think you missunderstood me. terrorists i consider to be barbarians because they HAVE NO COUNTRY OR CITY. they just pop up everywhere and all they do is to attack.
    And the military advantage is not what bring you domination victory.... its the number of Capitols your country control. While USA is influential to many Capitols they do not puppet or annexed any of them. Thats why i exclude them from Domi Vic. In fact I would say nobody won that one yet since nobody controlled all known Capitols in their respective time.
     
  8. HughFran

    HughFran Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    348
    Okay, that's fine. If 'terrorists' have no country then how come America have occupied half of the Middle East?

    anyway, getting a little off subject here. No, nobody has won the Domination victory and nobody probably ever will. Also, I nominated three countries for Domination - USA, Russia and China so I'm unsure why you have singled out only USA to argue with me on
     
  9. vesp3r1987

    vesp3r1987 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    Because i felt like it :D (no bad feelings) Its just that USA is warmongering alot but as they claim they "liberated" those countries and not occupied them. I also dont think they have been occupied. Most of them are in same situation like my country - they just made "defensive pact"
     
  10. Andy0132

    Andy0132 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    In the hell that is my head
    How much blood has been shed by the world to fuifill American imperialist dreams? Afghanistan, Korea, Vietnam, Israel, Southeastern Asia, the list goes on and on. Same with the Russians - only they found themselves on the other side.

    Did you know that the first Canadian casualties in Afghanistan were caused by friendly fire from the USA during a Canadian training operation?
     
  11. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,316
    That's unit kills.... doesn't get you any closer to a domination win.
     
  12. Andy0132

    Andy0132 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    In the hell that is my head
    I'm talking moreso about the warmonger penalty the USA has/would have by this point, given all the warring it's done. If you capture a city that got sacked by barbarians, you get a diplo penalty, not a bonus.
     
  13. Priyon

    Priyon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Bhopal, Malwa, India
    India surely wins a cultural victory alongside China, and maybe Egypt and Phoenicia.

    The thing is, neither Mongol invasions nor the British aggression destroyed the culture of India or China. Indian culture was damaged, heavily damaged, but not outright destroyed. Same goes for China, although in case of China the one more responsible is the now ruling communist government rather than any outsider unlike what happened in India.

    Besides, as I have said, Indian civilization still stands as it was. There are many things we Indians do that we have been doing since the bronze age and beyond. Sanskrit language is still spoken, and it influenced the entire South-East Asian vocabulary and language system. The Indian scripts are all derived from Brahmi script, which is supposedly the successor of the Indus script - the first Indian script all the way to the beginning of the Indian civilization in the Indus river. The religion is same since Vedic era (although it evolved and gained certain characteristics over time), we still read texts that were written 2-3 millenia ago, the food is similar to ancient era and has expanded a lot since Mauryan era, we have made advances in every human fields, invented zero, wrote countless books and treatises, invented four religions, built grand buildings and architecture, the world's first real international university (600+ years before Bologna)...the list goes on.

    If anyone has any questions on Indian history, as a historian myself I'll be happy to address them. :)

    The main difference between the viewpoint over China and India in the western countries is that they know about Chinese history but little about Indian one, which is extremely similar (huge, rich land; imperial dynasties; end of empires in 19th century).
     
  14. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,220
    Gender:
    Male
    India could get a CV because most of the natives in the Américas were called indians by the english and European colonists that came to colonize América. England does have most people in the world speaking its language and spain could be 2nd by having most people speaking its language, spanish.
     
  15. Andy0132

    Andy0132 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    In the hell that is my head
    For the record, there is a higher Chinese-speaking population worldwide than all other languages. Second is Spanish, with third being English. As for the whole Native "Indians", that was moreso misconception than cultural exposure. If we called the Russians "Brazilians", that wouldn't give tourism to Brazil. As for importance in the European mindset, that faded over time, as globalization became more and more prominent.
     
  16. Priyon

    Priyon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Bhopal, Malwa, India
    The whole thing about native Americans being called 'Indians' comes up because Columbus stubbornly refused to believe that the people he found were not Indians. European traders fell for it, the word was popularized and now even today, in the age of globalization and information, some people ignorantly call the original American people as 'Indians'.

    The thing is, the number of speakers in a language doesn't decide what civilization was greater. A lot of them influence the others and form the base of their languages/scripts. China influenced all of East Asia, just as India influenced all of South-East Asia, Afghanistan and parts of Persia/Iran.
     
  17. kixkal

    kixkal Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 21, 2015
    Messages:
    10
    Quite simplistic and some of the facts are incorrect. Germany unfortunately did not conquer Spain (it remained neutral due to the delicate socio-economic situation after the Civil War), and thus Spain remained as a dictatorship even after the German fall.
    It is true though that they conquered a large land mass in a rather quick fashion, with supremacy and domination bases. How relevant this domination was it is arguable, since only lasted couple years (months at the peak), hardly achieving any world supremacy (unlike, the Mongols, Chinese, Romans..).

    About USA coming to rescue the Germans and single handily breaking the curtain... Well they did part of the job, but once again I think it is a very narrow way of looking at things (not that it is relevant to this thread).
     
  18. Andy0132

    Andy0132 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    In the hell that is my head
    Liberating people doesn't grant you a domination victory, and as there were still units left from the conquered nations/minor nations aka City States, the USA wouldn't be getting any votes as World Leader from those they liberated.

    Furthermore, you could say that it was ideological pressure that broke the Soviet Union, not the USA. Clearly, Freedom had been enacted as the world ideology for quite a while.
     
  19. Priyon

    Priyon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Bhopal, Malwa, India
    When did Chinese and Romans ever achieve 'world supremacy'? None of them could ever do anything outside of their own empires, other than influencing the said areas in many fields.

    It is the same for every major long-standing civilization. Indians, Chinese, Persians, Romans, Greeks and so on. They were huge, two of them are still huge, yet in none of them ever achieved anything like 'world supremacy'. The only ones who could've done so are the (temporarily) territorially huge, extremely genocidal and culturally destructive political states like Britain and the Mongol Empire.
     
  20. HeliosDisciple

    HeliosDisciple Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2014
    Messages:
    169
    Gender:
    Male
    Rome might be the forerunner in a cultural victory, actually. India and China don't have much influence on the West (certainly not the Dominant status they'd need), but the West and all its civs live in the shadow of Rome.
     

Share This Page