Which tech do you choose from liberalism?

[indovinello]

If I'm the first to liberalism I always choose astronomy. Wise choice or not?

 

[JujuLautre]

Same answer as always for Civ: Depends on the situation

Say, you're playing a lake map, can't trade astro and don't need observatories, astronomy would be a terrible choice.

I would say in fact that you should tech liberalism with a tech in mind. Otherwise, except the civics and the trade opportunities, there's much less use.

 

[Kesshi]

indovinello,

this is a highly situational question. For techs of that Era, typically Astronomy is the way to go because it is the "most expensive." What I mean by that is that even though Astronomy is the same number of beakers as Military Science and Democracy, Astronomy still costs more because there are no ---> arrows pointing to it. (Arrows get you a bonus if you know the tech before it. And it's impossible to learn Democracy or Military Science without learning the arrow techs leading to it.)

However, if you're in the middle of a war, and don't have the production to spare to build Observatories, taking Astronomy may hurt more than help as it obsoletes a lot of things that directly or indirectly affect your science. The flip side is that if you're very ahead, try to hold of for something insane. On a Noble Earth OCC I managed to get Steam Power, Chemistry and Corporation before anyone came close to finishing off Liberalism. This permitted me to take Assembly Line from Liberalism. Assembly Line is 2.5x the beaker cost of Constitution/Military Science/Astronomy, and over 3.5x the beaker cost of Liberalism itself. A neat thing I found out is that you don't need to learn Rifling to learn Assembly Line, so you can wait to backfill with Rifling while still drafting Musketmen at the cost of 1 population (with Nationhood) until you decide to grab Rifling and upgrade you army of Musketmen to Infantry. It costs a pretty penny, but when you end up with Infantry in the 1300s, there's no stopping you.

Short answer: You usually can't go wrong with Astronomy. But sometimes there's a better option if you can plan properly.

 

[Navarre]

Unless I'm really ahead, I'd take Nationalism if Astronomy doesn't have any use, especially if I'm at war. This way I can search Constitution and build jails which will allow me to continue the war longer than my opponent. I'll use the GA from the Taj Mahal to switch to Representation and Democracy if I have to.

Going for Assembly Line just feels too much of an exploit for my sensitive self. Getting a 20th century tech without researching any of the 16th century ones before just wouldn't feel right, how convenient as it would be.

 

[Kesshi]

Going for Assembly Line just feels too much of an exploit for my sensitive self. Getting a 20th century tech without researching any of the 16th century ones before just wouldn't feel right, how convenient as it would be.

Navarre,

Have you ever played with the tech tree from turn zero? You can get all sorts of wacky stuff without training for some key techs. For example, you can research Assembly Line without getting Hunting, Aesthetics, and Iron Working.

Machinery doesn't require Masonry.
Replaceable Parts doesn't require Iron Working, Construction or Engineering.
Astronomy Doesn't require Engineering nor the Knowledge of Construction.
Corporation doesn't require Alphabet.
Biology doesn't require Agriculture.
Heck, you can get Future Tech without knowing about Fusion, Computers*, Literature, or Agriculture!

*We all know the ongoing gag about how you can launch a spaceship without the knowledge of computers, too.

You can do a lot of silly things with the tech tree. Unlike worker city capturing, this seems like it was very much intended and not something of a bug or exploit. Yes, they seem silly, but exploitative? Naw.

 

[Navarre]

Don't get all worked up like that.

I said I had a sensitive self. I play my way, and I would feel like I exploit the system by bypassing techs so badly, but that's just me. I sometimes get Assembly Line very early, but not that early.

And yes, I play with the tech tree from zero, all the time. I just found that you can research Currency without Mathematics too. Don't ask me how you count the bucks, beats me. It is indeed intended, as said in the manual.

 

[mike p]

And many know this one as well, but you can found Confucianism without ever learning Mysticism by going Maths-Currency-Code of Laws. All other religions require Mysticism first.

Astronomy is almost never a bad choice from Liberalism though. Even on an all land map, you still get Observatories, which effectively make every unresearched tech cheaper. Though if you are really far ahead and have the esp points to see what everyone else is researching, you may as well go for something like Steel and just conquer everyone.

 

[Sisiutil]

As with everything in Civ, it depends. Here are my favourites, though:

• Astronomy: A perennial favourite. To my mind, Astronomy is the game's renaissance-era equivalent to the ancient era's Bronze Working and the medieval era's Civil Service: a relatively expensive tech that unlocks several key items. In the case of Astronomy: (a) a very useful building (Observatory) that multiplies research; (b) a crucial military/expansion unit (Galleons) that can transport Settlers, Workers, and military units; and (c) most important of all, it enable trade over ocean tiles. The new overseas trade routes boost your economy, as will GPT trades for your excess resources, while the access to new resources will allow raise your cities' happy and health caps and allow them to grow.
  However... if you're on a land-based map (lakes, inland sea, pangaea, etc.), the only real advantage you're getting from Astronomy is the Observatories. You're better off choosing something else. (Ironically, if I'm isolated on a continent by myself, I probably already have Astronomy before Liberalism. You can do this through careful research and a few Great Scientists. My revised Intermediate Tactics article describes how to do it.)
• Nationalism: As fond as I am of Astronomy, sometimes even on more of a water-based map selecting Nationalism will make more sense, especially if I'm warmongering. I often choose Nationalism when I'm playing as a civ with a musket or rifle-based UU (Ottomans, France, England, Ethiopia) so I can have the early ability to draft those units using the same-named civic. The +2 from barracks is also very useful for combating war weariness. And if I have marble it's even more attractive, as I'll then take a run at the Taj Mahal.
• Chemistry: If I have a substantial tech lead so that no one else is anywhere near Liberalism, this is my advanced tech of choice. The reason? Privateers. Getting Chem for free allows me to send these guys out to plunder, harass friend and foe alike, and accumulate XPs centuries ahead of when they're supposed to appear. (This assumes you already have Astronomy.)

 

[Honkoid]

I recently found steel to be a top choice, although not always possible. It is a lot more expensive than nationalism etc. and with chemistry, gunpowder and engineering as prerequesites not too hard to get (at least on emperor, don't know about immortal and deity). If you manage that you'll have an easy time rolling over at least one AI with cannons. With a bit of luck they can't even field curassiers, so there is nothing on the battlefield that can counter 12 strength cannons.
An additional bonus are workshops boosted by chemistry along the way. Exactly what you need for war.