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Which UU's are too weak? Fix?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by AncientPlayer, Sep 21, 2006.

  1. AncientPlayer

    AncientPlayer Warlord

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    Lots of discussion has gone on about which unique units are the best or too strong or... Let's turn it around--

    Which unique unit(s) is too weak and what would you do to fix it?

    I nominate the Quecha as too weak to be really effective. For a fix I'd give it the Scout's ability to pop goody huts with no bad results and/or another free promotion--Woodsman I seems a good one.
     
  2. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    Quecha is pretty weak. They are only useful against archers who are not fortified on hill cities and even then they have losing odds.

    Quecha are not a good thing to mass produce early in the game when expansion is more vital.

    Only time they are useful is when you have an enemy right next to you.
     
  3. Tekee

    Tekee Bahama Mama

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    Alot of people consider them pretty strong,
     
  4. marioflag

    marioflag History Addict

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    Simple!
    Jaguars they just sucks, playing aztecs i'm compelled everytime to build only axemen when conquering cities.
     
  5. Pantastic

    Pantastic King

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    They're great against any archer-defended cities. Winning early wars requires losing some units, and buring a few cheap warriors to take a juicy capital is a good trade in my book.
     
  6. marioflag

    marioflag History Addict

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    Against AI you have a point but in multiplayer i don't think quechua has any hope to give you a capital.Archers if well used can stop quechuas
     
  7. blaugh

    blaugh Chieftain

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    Many people would consider the Quecha to be one of, if not the best, unique units. Jaguars are pretty bad, as are the Celtic(I think) uu in Warlord.
     
  8. PugFugly

    PugFugly Chieftain

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    Some of the UUs are only useful in certain situations.

    Quecha- maybe the best unit in single player if the map allows you to reach your enemies early, not much use otherwise

    Jaguar (Camel archer)- Useful if you don't have iron (horses).

    Navy SEAL- useful only if you reach that stage of the game and the outcome hasn't already been decided

    Fast Worker- much more useful on quicker game speeds where the turns they save are more significant.
     
  9. AncientPlayer

    AncientPlayer Warlord

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    But what would you do to fix the weakness in a UU?

    If the Jaguar (fast worker, camel archer... etc) is weak, what could you change to fix it?
     
  10. Rast

    Rast Warlord

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    Quches are actually one of my favorites, 2nd only to Praetorians.

    Incans are the only civ that can go to war in 4000 BC (without axes, in other words) and expect to do more than just pillage & kidnap workers. They're also great against barbs until they start spawning with axes (which isn't for quite a while). The strength of the Quecha lies in the fact that you get a strong UU at the point in time when you are very weak vs the AIs (at the start of the game on higher difficulties).

    As for weak UUs... I'd have to go with the Fast Worker. The extra movement point doesn't make any difference at all on Epic and Marathon speeds (Personally I like to play on Marathon). I'd suggest giving them the ability to build improvements 33% faster.
     
  11. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    Fix:
    Jaguar
    Fast Workers
    Camel Archers
     
  12. idle

    idle Warlord

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    Jaguars, of course.

    Berserkers come too late to be effective without supporting siege units. They should replace swordsmen instead of macemen. Even though the timeline placement is historically correct, there's no way the Scandinavians had discovered Civil Service and Machinery when they where raiding northern Europe.
     
  13. Bongo-Bongo

    Bongo-Bongo The Master

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    Jaguars: Get rid of the crappy jungle defence bonus and instead give it a 25% bonus vs melee and archery units. Keep the strength the same though. Not as bad as most like to think they are though.

    Gallic Warrior: Treat like the Impi. Give it an extra movement point, and give it the Mobility promotion.
     
  14. Mango

    Mango Tasty Fruit

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    If you place it too early then your berserkers will be raiding off galleys. I always felt berserkers were next to useless as far as the amphibious promotion was concerned since you can't really send a raid until you get galleons. Not unless you want to just shuttle your berserkers to a safe spot and then declare war, but that's no fun.

    If you beeline those parts of the tech tree though you can pull off a nice berserker raid or two. Depending on the map it might be possible to take the majority of your opponents cities in one turn.
     
  15. shivute

    shivute Prince

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    I used to think that a uu warrior was a waste.
    However the Quecha is one of the best UUs.
    Take high difficulty level, take raging barbs option, take a lot of civs on your map - and you will see the benefit of these excellent units. Perhaps the most important is that you don't have to bother with archery and can research something better and know that you will survive the barbs.
    They are useful up until 0 AD when the barb axemen start appearing.
    So they also have quite a long life.


    Late UUs are weaker than early UUs, but each has its uses.

    The ones I don't like are camel archer, musketeer, gallic warrior, navy seal, fast worker.
    I like the jaguar, by itself it isn't too hot but when used correctly with whipping it can be lethal.
     
  16. Bongo-Bongo

    Bongo-Bongo The Master

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    Thats the very reason I have yet to play a game as America.

    The Navy Seal comes far too late to make any impact on the game. It's a waste of a UU. It would be better if it was replaced by something like the Minutemen so that America has a UU that has a use.
     
  17. idle

    idle Warlord

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    But this is exactly what I want to do with the Berserkers. Raiding directly from galleys. IMHO that's what they're for. Fun is subjective, and I think it'll be fun to show up out of nowhere with 6 galleys á 2 berserkers and raid 3 coastal cities in one turn. Granted, it'll only be doable on certain maps.
    This is much harder at the maceman tech-level than at iron working, because of cultural defence.

    Well, you'll only be able to raid relatively small/new cities this way. When culture defence reaches 40% og even 60% you have no chance without siege units.

    Sorry if I misunderstood you. English is not my first language.
     
  18. Lord Kid

    Lord Kid Warlord

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    That sounds like a good idea, replace musketmen with Minutemen, give them like 2 or 3 first strikes plus guerilla or woodsman, and you have a viable unit for America.

    Personally I think the Jaguar needs to be fixed. You lose 1 strength but gain 25% jungle defense? Granted you don't have to have iron to build them, but iron is common enough that the bonus just really isn't there.
     
  19. Ceritoglu

    Ceritoglu Janissary

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    I think they reduced the power of the Jag to cripple the lunatic that is Monty. Give Monty Praetorians and he'll give you the world.
     
  20. SkippyT

    SkippyT Who?

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    Location:
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    Berserker:
    Replaces Axeman in stead of Maceman.
    6 strenght in stead of 5, Starts with Amphibious promotion and +10% city attack

    pretty strong no?

    Quechua:
    Replaces Scout in stead of Warrior
    2 strenght in stead of 1, starts with Guerilla I promotion.

    Camel Archer:
    Replaces Knight
    10 strenght, +25% against mounted units

    Jaguar:
    Replaces Swordsman
    5 strenght, starts with Woodsman I, doesn't need Iron to build
     

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