Which UU's are too weak? Fix?

[Ramesses 3000]

The Gallic Warrior and Jaguar... 2 easy fixes. First, as mentioned before, Gallic Warriors should get Guerilla II if built in a city with a Dun, as having your UB kick your UU in the balls instead of helping him is pointless. And the Jaguar Warrior should be invisible to the enemy when they move in jungle spaces (of course revealing themself if they attack a city or another unit in a jungle.) And the U.S. unit should be the Minuteman, with a chance to withdraw on defense.

 

[idle]

I can't beleive that you guys don't like Berserkers! How can you pass up a chance to have amphibious city raider grenadiers? The load up galleys technique is great! Especially since the trading post gives navigation. The only problem with this strategy is the cultural defences. I usually attack with maces vs. archers/axemen, so collateral damage isn't necessary. I also believe that triremes should be able to bombard cities, but that's just a dream...

Well, it's not that I don't like the Berserkers per se, but I want to be a real viking and raid those monastaries, burn the women and rape the fields!

As you say, if triremes could bombard cities the problem of cultural defence goes away.

 

[namyzarc]

For all of you that are claiming Jags to be weak: You are missing a few key points:
1) For all purposes: Jags = Axes. No they don't have +50% melee but guess what? If yur Jag-rushing & attacking cities you won't be encountering any melee units. They'll be mostly up against archers anyway.
2) They are NOT intended to be a good replacement IF you don't have access to bronze or iron. They basically allow you to build an Axe-like unit WITHOUT the prerequisit tech. So think of it as a partial-free tech. You can now skip BW and take another research path, while STILL beeing able to produce a unit that is almost an Axe.
3) Because they are available BEFORE bronze, they basically give you the ability to axe-rush before anyone else has axes.

1 thing I need to clarify is that I do not believe Axes and Jags to be EXACTLY the same, but they are close enough IMO, that an axe-rush strategy can be used with these units instead, can happen sooner, and can have similar if not better results due to that time-advatange.

 

[Lord Kid]

For all of you that are claiming Jags to be weak: You are missing a few key points:
1) For all purposes: Jags = Axes. No they don't have +50% melee but guess what? If yur Jag-rushing & attacking cities you won't be encountering any melee units. They'll be mostly up against archers anyway.
2) They are NOT intended to be a good replacement IF you don't have access to bronze or iron. They basically allow you to build an Axe-like unit WITHOUT the prerequisit tech. So think of it as a partial-free tech. You can now skip BW and take another research path, while STILL beeing able to produce a unit that is almost an Axe.
3) Because they are available BEFORE bronze, they basically give you the ability to axe-rush before anyone else has axes.

1 thing I need to clarify is that I do not believe Axes and Jags to be EXACTLY the same, but they are close enough IMO, that an axe-rush strategy can be used with these units instead, can happen sooner, and can have similar if not better results due to that time-advatange.

As far as I know, unless it's different in Warlords, you still need to research IW in order to build them, you just get to build them w/o iron resources.

Edit: According to this Units, the Jag requires IW and replaces the Sword, so indeed by the time you can built it most likely will be going against other axes if not swords. So they are kinda weak compared to other UU's.

 

[Bongo-Bongo]

For all of you that are claiming Jags to be weak: You are missing a few key points:
1) For all purposes: Jags = Axes. No they don't have +50% melee but guess what? If yur Jag-rushing & attacking cities you won't be encountering any melee units. They'll be mostly up against archers anyway.
2) They are NOT intended to be a good replacement IF you don't have access to bronze or iron. They basically allow you to build an Axe-like unit WITHOUT the prerequisit tech. So think of it as a partial-free tech. You can now skip BW and take another research path, while STILL beeing able to produce a unit that is almost an Axe.
3) Because they are available BEFORE bronze, they basically give you the ability to axe-rush before anyone else has axes.

1 thing I need to clarify is that I do not believe Axes and Jags to be EXACTLY the same, but they are close enough IMO, that an axe-rush strategy can be used with these units instead, can happen sooner, and can have similar if not better results due to that time-advatange.

Jaguars replace Swordsmen, not Axemen. And it still needs Iron Working to be able to build them. Although the Jag has it's uses, at the end of the day it's just not as good as a swordsmen, and when you consider that the Praet also replaces swordsmen, it really does seem a second rate UU.

 

[karr1255]

I still think that a new upgrade line should have been introduced in warlords. So that units gain a bonus when they attack other units in a certain tile. So you could give jags something like '"+20% against units in jungle" or "ignore jungle def bonus on attack". That would be a sufficent buff and unique.

 

[BYC]

Jaguars are just horrible. Even though they're cheaper, they're still not up to par. Is Firaxis saying Monty would be overpowered if they got a normal swordsman? I think the simplest fix would be keep them the same as a swordsman, except it requires no iron. If for some unknown reason that you don't get copper or iron, they can still be built. 50% to attack into forest/jungle sounds good. Woodsman I promotion would be good if others aren't done.

Although it comes too late, the Navy SEAL fits America's "golden age" fairly well. I think a WW2 era UU would be best, as it's during that time when the USA finally had it's coming out party to the world. Or, even though this is odd, make like B-52's as an UU that replaces bombers, and give it some sick bonuses to make up for late gameness. Or even more radical...make the UU of an upgraded nuke. America in general needs a boost in Civ 4, and the mall doesn't cut it either

 

[sirtommygunn]

Umm...just because you had bad luck, sirtommygun, does not mean the skirmisher needs to be fixed. An extra strength point on an already good city defender is a good enough bonus for the Mali. And I disagree--Redcoats and Cossacks are Industrial era units, and they make plenty of difference in the game.

Quechas are quite useful in all the games I've played with them (all right, only one). Try attacking some city besides the capital, by the way. That's suicide, usually (as you found out)--Wodan has a point about striking their expansions, and limiting them until you can finish them quickly and easily with catapults at hand.

Sadly, Lord Kid, I wish it was as easy as playing a single game to determine whether or not a unique unit is overpowered or underpowered...

wut i ment was redcoats r OVERPOWERED not UNDERPOWERED

 

[Rast]

That's odd - I've never had any problems taking a capital with a fast quecha rush - unlike the poster above I don't use CR3 quechas, mine never live long enough. 2 quechas per capital-defending archer, quechas harass, destroy improvements, and abduct workers while I'm building up the stack. Even Mansa's skirmishers have fallen to 2:1 quecha stacks.

Unbeatable way to get a 2nd, and even 3rd cities, and however many other capitals you can grab and raze before you even get to BW.

This ability to come out strong out of the gate is the only way I can get anywhere at all emp (though I still get owned later... emp is hard, but that's another story)

 

[Eskel]

Keshik is too weak. Mongols have created a largest land empire ever, conquering cities and whole nations throughout whole Asia in very short period of time, while in Civ4 their UU gives them not sufficient advantage.