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Which wonders are worth it?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by illarion, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. illarion

    illarion Chieftain

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    Like many, when I first started, I went through the phase of wonder addiction, trying to grab all that I could.

    I learnt that this was hampering my play, and went hard in the other direction - trying to build few if any wonders, and pouring those hammers and slaves into expansion and military instead.

    But I think I may have gone too far in that direction. Some wonders provide substantial benefits, in the right situation. GLH with an island empire is great, for example, as is GL, especially if you also have the Pyramids for Representation.

    So, my question to you all is:
    Which wonders are most worth their hammer and opportunity cost, under which circumstances?

    Coda to the main question - which wonders are worth building in almost any game, assuming doing so isn't going to hamper you too much in other areas, and which should only be considered under very specific circumstances?

    My own list would definitely feature:
    - GLH if significantly coastal
    - Pyramids if stone, industrious, or SE planned
    - GL if marble, pyramids, or philosophical

    I like the Mausoleum and the Taj also, though I'm less convinced they are worth the cost.
     
  2. JTMacc99

    JTMacc99 That's a paddlin'

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    I like Stonehenge if my civ has a monument UB. Normally, it can be a real strain on my civ to divert that much early production, but I am willing to play catch-up if it means getting a free UB in every city up through astronomy.


    I also find the United Nations particularly useful if I'm in a good position to win a diplomatic victory, but have a real shot of losing otherwise.
     
  3. burlicconi

    burlicconi King

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    Great libarry is always great, because of 2 free scientist. If you have representation, you rock...
    Great Lighthouse if you are mostly coastal empire, ofc....
    Stonehendge can be of a good use, especially if you have stone.
    If you are religious empire, Angkor Wat and Spiral Minaret are worth doing it, because prophet is mush better that engineer then.
    Statue of Liberty is great wonder, try to build always when you can.
     
  4. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    Depends on playing style /map of course.

    A few that i generally find particularly good.

    Great lighthouse
    Great library
    Parthenon
    Cristo redentor
    Pyramids but too expensive without stone and not as good generally as Great lighthouse

    Sol but only when the empire is really big and in this case you're more likely to capture it than build it yourself.

    The happy wonders along the electricity-radio line can be very good too when you're a bit low on resources and the others have them in trade.

    Edit: I agree with your line of play btw while i find the above wonders useful i often don't build them because other things are even more useful.
     
  5. burlicconi

    burlicconi King

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    I like to build Eiffel's Tower also, because it's like Stonehenge, good for cultural race, which I also like. Sistine Chapel is also great for culture race.
    problem is that great wonders is often revealed with aesthetics, music and other tech which are non-military, so you must have good position to build them.
     
  6. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

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    I am always happier to see Marble than Stone in my starting areas. Thats because I like the Marble Wonder Path better than the stone one.

    Marble early means the GL for sure, and a likely run at MoM and Taj, a couple wonders that actually compliment each other.

    I generally build only a couple Wonders pre-Lib these days. Like you I was an addict Wonder-Hog, then went through a phase of "1 Wonder per Era" to work on my game, and its had a positive result on my overall game strat.

    The biggie for me is the GLH. If I can justify it I build it, period. That usually means 75% or more of my cities can be Coastal if I wish to dotmap it that way. I think the very very easiest type of game to win is "Non-isolated isolation with lots of smallish landmasses for lots of other-landmass settling", where most opponents are within Galley distance. Even at Emperor, once I get the GLH, Currency and Compass, I find I cant even REX fast enough to trash my economy.

    Lately I have been trying out Stonehenge again though. As mentioned, leaders with a Monument UB are good candidates for it. I actually try for it with EXP civs, so I can start a granary in new cities right away, and whip em at 2 pop.
     
  7. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    World wonders are worthless until proven useful.

    When in doubt, don't build them.
     
  8. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    Wonders... :drool: Must... Build... All... :crazyeye:

    Which ones you need depend on many things.
    Only build the ones you have a specific reason and good opportunity (Boousting Ressource, Headstart) to make in the specific situation you are in.
     
  9. Sian

    Sian Emperor

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    yeah ... GLH+Currency+compass, means you almost can't rex faster than the economy is tanking it and getting back in possitives

    in one of my games i kept spamming settlers to settle the half of the continent as fast as i could, but GLH just tanked it with no problems at all eventhough it was really only my captial, a FP city and a captured captial which could carry themselves without the trade routes
     
  10. MkLh

    MkLh King

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    Cristo Redentor is good if you're not spiritual and the game lasts to modern times. Representation is generally the most powerful government civic (PS when war), but ability to change to US for couple of turns and buy some buildings/units is great.
     
  11. Charonicus

    Charonicus Warlord

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    Some are always worth it, like the Great Library.

    Personally I like...
    The Henge if I plan on rexing and don't have time to waste with monuments.
    The Oracle if it looks gettable, a free early tech can be a big advantage.
    Great Lighthouse and Colossus if I have plenty of coast.
    Statue of Liberty (that's the free spec in each city right?)
    The one that gives culture to all state religion buildings is nice too in certain circumstances. (Notre Dame?)
    Taj if I have a shot.
    Versailles if I have a big empire.
    Spiral Minaret if it's worthwhile.
    Hanging Gardens if I have major health issues.
    Sistine Chapel if I have major happy issues.

    Pyramids I rarely go for. I tend to stick with HR for a fair bit anyway.

    I think most others it depends. If it ends up available with a short build time and looks useful, I may detour and try grab it. If not... then I ignore. :p Very occasionally, if I'm low on cash, I'll start building one just for the compensation but only if I can spare that city's hammers.
     
  12. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    There's not a lot of profit to capturing the Oracle or the Taj, but the rest are usually worth it.
     
  13. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

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    You may be mixing up Notre Dame and the Sistine Chapel. ND gives +2:) to all cities on continent, SC is the +culture to all Specialists and state religion buildings.

    U of Sankore should get a mention. I am often the first to Paper, and never trade it around until I am sure Liberalism is locked in (that tech seems the one AIs use as a "trigger" to chase Lib, every time I trade it early, I seem to be too close to losing Lib for comfort) so I usually have a big window to build it. I generally build Monasteries and Temples in all my cities, especially near cultural borders, so the +beakers is a nice bonus. The Spiral Min is a great Wonder too, but requires a useless tech, so I am never in contention for it unless I specifically chase DR, and I only do that rarely with leaders like Ramesses.
     
  14. Sian

    Sian Emperor

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    the religius fourity (is that even a word) sistine chapel, U of sankore, Spiral Minerat and AP of your religion, makes religius buildings utterly imbalanced ... they all gain 5 culture, 2 beakers, 2 gold and 2 hammers beyond what they would otherwise get :)
     
  15. Ravellion

    Ravellion Prince

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    Would quartet suffice? ;-)
     
  16. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    How about the settler wonder?
     
  17. dubrown

    dubrown Prince

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    How about just capturing the wonders instead of building them, with a few exceptions (like Taj it's often more cost effective... ;)

    Any jokes aside, I do build wonders, but I don't worry too much about it anymore. I do go after the ones that can benefit me in any specific situation. If I'm to rex alot and it's a large nice continent the GW is usually good to have to be able to ignore the barbs, GLH if islands/lot's of coastal. GL is sure nice, but I don't rush to it anymore as I used to, Mids is just too expensive if not Ind + stone.

    What's my point, ah yes, as been stated, only build wonders if they a) gives you a real benefit in your current situation and b) is possible to build without sacrificing too much

    And no, I hardly count UN and AP as wonders anymore, they're more like means to a certain kind of victory (or loss), those I rather control than is left on the sideline.
     
  18. Charonicus

    Charonicus Warlord

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    Yep, good catch. I always get those two the wrong way round. >_<
     
  19. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Deity

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    A wonder that no one seems to have mentioned is the Great Wall. You can build that cheaply for several reasons and it's worth it for any of them depending on how you want to play the game.

    a)You can use it to avoid micromanaging your forces to deal with annoying barbarian raiders.
    b)You can use it to boost your GGP generation by declaring war and letting the enemies come into your cultural area before killing them. This lasts the whole game and also works for ships and aircraft (interceptions and shot down) for battles inside your own culture.
    c)You get 2 Spy GPP per turn which can often result in a Great Spy or two if you don't dilute pool with other GPP types or even if you do you might get lucky. An early Great Spy makes for a very different game based around espionage.
     
  20. Happily Aimless

    Happily Aimless Chieftain

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    I plat a lot of water maps, so I've always got coast lines. that mean trying for the Great Light House and the Colossus.
     

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