While We Wait: The Next Generation

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by Turner, Jan 7, 2009.

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  1. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

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    @sp- This is epic beyond imagination- but probably not in the good way. It's like a B-Movie. Or maybe a C-Movie.
     
  2. LightFang

    LightFang "I'm the hero!"

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    Some B movies are great, if you take them as B movies and not an actual good movie in the A movie kind of way.
     
  3. ~Darkening~

    ~Darkening~ Weep, Mother.

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    .....Haven't I already warned you people about not repenting? I mean, we suffer once, we suffer twice, now we suffer thrice; when exactly does this lesson begin to kick in? Any otherwise, I feel compelled to note that aside older movies, B or C movies aren't that great.
     
  4. Ace of Gold

    Ace of Gold MAKE WAY FOR THE BAD GUY

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    There is a reason why they are B and not A. Because they suck. Or to say it like a Critic would, Its very unpleasant to watch
     
  5. LightFang

    LightFang "I'm the hero!"

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    WRONG.

    Lots of sleeper hits are B movies! And anyway, some B movies are great. Here's a nonexhaustive list:

    Invasion of the Body Snatchers; The Blob; The Dawn of the Dead; Drunken Wu Tang; The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

    They're silly, and maybe they suck, but that's part of why they're fun to watch.

    Also, Machete.
     
  6. Israelite9191

    Israelite9191 You should be reading

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    And moving back to NESing topics so as to avoid this thread being closed like all the others.....
     
  7. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    I'm currently working on a more dynamic form of BT.

    • Player Instrument 1: Focuses on the institutions of the 'culture' over a significant period of time.
    • Player Instrument 2: For key events deriving from player orders, the player involved will be consulted. The possibility exists that one key event might trigger a new one as well.


    I'm still trying to figure out how to have players frame their orders to suit the different focus of not being a nation but a culture or a grouping of nations... I'm partially sold on the idea of applying a reasonableness test

    • with the possible precedent for the decision being supplied [not essential just helpful];
    • he likelihood of the institutional change in a given 'culture' or 'nation'; and
    • some likely consequences.
     
  8. Turner

    Turner Deity Retired Moderator

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    Doesn't matter.
    Ninja Dude is right. Besides, it's part of the [rules]forum rules[/rules] to post in the proper place. It's spam to do otherwise.
    That was uncalled for. Moderator Action: Warned for flaming.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    Moderator Action: And extraneous spam posts deleted.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  9. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Have you thought about structuring BT orders so players have a limited number of paths to follow during the BT?

    Cultural expansion
    Cultural influence
    Military expansion
    Military strength
    Economic growth
    Religious expansion
    Religious influence
    etc.

    Then a player would allocate resources across the paths in proportion to what his goals were. For each path that bears a significant amount of resources, specific milestones could be noted. then when you do the BT if a milestone is reached, then it becomes a node that allows new events or effects.
     
  10. jalapeno_dude

    jalapeno_dude AKA Panda Judo Eel

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    The problem with that is that it makes BTs take much longer to process, as there needs to be a process of back-and-forth between the players. This isn't necessarily a bad thing--but if a BT is meant to be a quick-and-dirty jumpstarting of the NES to a more interesting period, this probably isn't the way to go.
     
  11. EQandcivfanatic

    EQandcivfanatic Zailing Captain Retired Moderator

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    Personally, I'd say just make it a different NES altogether like I'm doing with Times for Heroes. Do a new thread for the new age, take a lot of time to really work out the exact ramifications of the different choices a player makes within the NES, in addition to the "orders" they give for the boring times. Questions I'd ask would be:

    "what would this protracted war(s) to this nation's society?"
    "This nation has had a multitude of governments within this NES, what would that do for the long-term stability of that society?"

    And so on, taking into account the effects upon culture due to the events of the "Interesting Times." Like jalapeno says though, if you just want a quick fix, this would not be the way to go.
     
  12. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    So it comes down to "purpose". If one has a particular purpose for the BT (or game), then one can create the structures necessary to support it. Begin with the end in mind.
     
  13. jalapeno_dude

    jalapeno_dude AKA Panda Judo Eel

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    Yes. Masada's "dynamic BTs" are more suited to a SymNES or Daft's Alternate Timeline Building Experiment, where rapid progression and heavy player input are both desired.
     
  14. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    I believe it is undesirable for a mod to have a 'purpose' in mind, it can lead to forced outcomes. I'm happy to just setup the scene for whenever it is the 'BT' ends, which would largely be left up to the players. I would be willing to go to shorter turns with more statistical data but with known institutions when they want it.

    This I hope will give players a grounding in both the limitations of whatever state it is they choose institutionally wise and give it a history to work from. Statistics will be increased as well so players can make discrete apportioned decisions based on income or whatever as well.

    The net aim is to give the intangible elements a bit of a flogging :p

    I don't really want to have people focus in one particular area. I will however have institution 'points' which will limit the player a little bit. Most institutions will be multi disciplinary anyway, I've settled on a vertical separation instead of a horizontal separation if that makes sense.

    It's a 'BT' in inverted comma's its meant to cover a broad sweep of time, but not necessarily in a quick-and-dirt style. It will be more time consuming, but I've accepted that.

    Daft didn't focus on institutions and covered a period of history far quicker than I would, he also accepted minimal player input which is fine, he ended up with a solid approximation of what I want, a dynamic history.

    SymNES was the opposite means of going about what I'm going to do, it was very numerically statistically orientated, mine will be heavy on text and light on numerical statistics.

    Essentially EQ that is what I will be doing, the main difference is I will be looking at the institutions that underpin the result of a protracted war, or institutions which might feed internal political instability.


    I shall initially be focusing on a geographically isolated region for a dry run just to test the ruleset and to refine it if necessary. I can then expand it to other regions if I should feel so inclined. This will be a 'cradle' with the possibility of other cradles either being already developed for interaction, or to be created relying on the fact that the initial cradle will have minimal influence on the others due to its isolation.
     
  15. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    Pre-NESes are only valid in an AFS sense. All others are vile abominations.
    Have fun finding one of those.
     
  16. sp1023

    sp1023 Deity

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    If it's real life geographically isolated, you could do Australia or Nepal. Well, you know about Australia. Maybe Nepal?
     
  17. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

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    Nepal is actually quite densely populated- I recommend Greenland, as Antarctica is currently the home of my military bases and thus quite unsuitable.
     
  18. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    Retroactive deletion.
     
  19. sp1023

    sp1023 Deity

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    We could do a penguin NES! On Antarctica! That would be awesome! :)
     
  20. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    I did not mean "purpose" as an outcome, but rather a role it is to play in the larger game. If your purpose was to create cultural links between the "before" and the "after" times, then the BT should be structured to produce those and the player options geared towards choices that produce those cultural connections. In the same way if you wanted a BT that would change the map borders substantially and bereak down old empires, then the BT order structure could focus on options that encouraged players to include lots of military action in their orders. That does not detemine what the outcomes are, just that they will most liklely produce the desired effect on the map.

    A BT is really just a mini game within the larger game that has its own set of rules. Those rules don't determine the outcome of the BT anymore that the main game rules detrermine the outcome of that game; the BT rules just guide it between the IT portions and provide the continuity desired by the Mod.
     
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