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While you wait for Civ5...

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by Rhye, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    ...you could already start one discussion: considering the civs available in civ5, you all can already think of a group of appropriate city-states for the earth map.
    Say, 15 or 25 cities (depending on map size, which is still unknown), divided into "present in 100% of the games" for necessary ones (Madrid? Carthage?) and "present in X% of the games" for less important ones.
    You could suggest a list of these cities, taking inspiration from RFC independents, writing spawn date too.
     
  2. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

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    Well, this thread is sure to get many replies! :lol:
     
  3. corovanrobber

    corovanrobber King

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    Depends on map size, but I'm sure every now excluded civs (with an exception - Spain) can be temporary replaced with city-states until expansion packs. Mongolia would be added as barbarian waves, why not? ;)
     
  4. Magnificent One

    Magnificent One Stetsons are cool.

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    How many civs is gonna be in RFC Civ5 if it's made?
     
  5. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

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    All that are available?
     
  6. Science Rules

    Science Rules Prince

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    I guess I'll kick things of with a few half-baked ideas; I really haven't decided on any percentages though.
    Because city-states are going to be the main drivers of diplomacy, this is what I think:

    I'm going to move from east to west:

    Nearly all of China's diplomacy will probably be with city-states:
    Seol, Korea
    Lhasa, Tibet
    City-States along the Silk Road in Central Asia (Merv?, Smarqland?, Turfan?

    If the map is large enough:
    City-State in Manchuria
    City-State in Vietnam or Khmer/Cambodia

    I'm not sure what to do with the Indian subcontinent. Perhaps Pataliputra could be a city-state?

    Moving on to Mesopotamia:
    If Babylon is not in the mod then it must be a City-State;
    If the map is large enough, then Ur/Sumer and Nineveh/Assur could be included as well.
    Later when Arabia spawns, Sana'a or Masqat could be city-states

    Nubia/Ethiopia/Kush must be represented as a city-state as they interacted heavily with ancient Egypt (Kerma/Napata/Meroe)
    The Middle East also needs Jerusalem, a Phoenician city (Sur, I guess), If the map is big enough we can have Anatolian cities (Troy, Hattusa, Gordium, Sardis) and Knossos.
    No Carthage Civ means City-States will have to suffice for North Africa & Iberia (Tripoli, Carthage, Rusadir, Gadir etc)
    I don't know if a city-state in the Balkans/Illyria/Dalmatia makes sense; same goes for Gaul.
    (I don't know if it will be better to model Greco-Roman influence through military conquest or through settling)


    For Medieval Europe:
    Edinburgh or some other Scottish city to spice up England's Medieval game. Same goes for Dublin or some other Irish city.
    If the map is big enouch Antwerp might be good. It'd make the Low Countries interesting.
    Probably a Polish city-state is needed in order to let Germany and Russia compete for influence.
    I don't know if Germany will model the HRE or Austria, but Vienna or Budapest might be additional city-states; same goes for Kiev.
    After the Vikings (Barbarians) stop raping and pillaging, they probably should "settle down" in City-States such as Copenhagen, Trondheim, Oslo, Stockholm etc.
    It's too bad that there are no Iberian Civs so City-States will have to fill the space; maybe have city-states in Seville, Lisbon, Barcelona, Toledo (not Barcelona).
    The game will have to model "what if the Spanish Kingdoms never united during the Reconquista?"

    For Mesoamerica:
    Montezuma might need to interact with Chichen Itza, Tikal, Copan or some other Mayan City-State. If the map's large enough maybe Tlaxcala and other altepetl can be included.
    Andean city-states are a must including Tiwanaku, Chan-Chan, Cuzco

    In sub-sahran Africa, there should be Mapungubwe or Great Zimbabwe.

    In Oceania, I'd like to see something on Easter Island as well as maybe Jakarta on Java.
     
  7. Úmarth

    Úmarth Megalomaniac

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    Some ideas for filling up Europe and the Near East:

    Necessary

    Babylon
    Jerusalem
    Carthage
    Madrid

    Less Important

    Hattusa
    Antioch
    Bibracte
    Amsterdam
    Barcelona
    Andalusia
    Toledo
    Lisbon
    Oslo, Uppsala, Aarhus (maybe guarantee at least one of these three in any given game?)
    Riga
    Budapest
    Krakow/Vilnius
    Kiev
     
  8. Magnificent One

    Magnificent One Stetsons are cool.

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    For starters - Spain must be in. And possibly Portugal.

    And here are my ideas for city states :

    Edinburgh
    Dublin
    Genoa
    Venice
    Naples
    Tunis/Carthage
    Jerusalem
    Sur/Tyre
    Babylon
    Sumer
    Seoul
    Samarkand
    Kiev
    Kazan
    Novgorod
    Barcelona
    Helsinki
    Stockholm
    Copenhagen
    Oslo/Christiana
     
  9. Úmarth

    Úmarth Megalomaniac

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    Genoa, Venice and Naples are covered by the Roman civ, surely. Although since the first two were actually highly influential city states (as opposed to capital cities being used to represent civs not included) it would be cool to somehow get them in.
     
  10. nody

    nody Emperor

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    We first need a map to have a good sense of what we can and cannot fill with cities.

    But if Spain is in (maybe modded) Lisboa and Amsterdam could be extra powerfull city states?
     
  11. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

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    I actually think that Rhye requested help with compiling a roster of potential city states - with spawn dates. Just leave the mod design work to Rhye, wont you! :p
     
  12. Úmarth

    Úmarth Megalomaniac

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    There's no Inca or Maya, so these are probably necessary:

    Tika
    Uxmal/Chichen Itza

    Cusco
    Quito
    Chan Chan
     
  13. Magnificent One

    Magnificent One Stetsons are cool.

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    But if there is an 600ad start ,then they should be added.
     
  14. micbic

    micbic Optimistic Pessimist

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    A Los Angeles-style city should be in, to represent the Spanish influence since Spain is out.
     
  15. Magnificent One

    Magnificent One Stetsons are cool.

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    Hopefully Spain is modded in - Without Spain ,no South American colonization.
     
  16. Alexius08

    Alexius08 Emperor

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    ... and no Conquistadors if then.

    Can I request adding in more African city-states as Europe's partners in the slave trade?
     
  17. SalmonSoil

    SalmonSoil Prince

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    Ok, we have seen Africa and the Middle East of the Earth Map that ships with ciV from the gameplay video they released.
    Also it has been confirmed that city-state can have more than one city, in normal games they can only gain additional cities through conquest in wars... But certainly we should be able to just gift them cities.

    Now my list: (I don't know exact dates for many of these cities these are just approximations. Question marks where I think I am very far off)
    Classical Meditteraenean:
    Babylon 2300BC
    Jerusaleum 1500BC
    Tyre 1900BC
    Hattusas 1900BC
    Aksum 1000BC
    Carthage 800BC (Several cities would spawn controlled by Carthage)

    Europe:
    Edinburgh 500AD?
    Dublin 500AD?
    Amsterdam 1500AD (or could put it earlier to prevent disruption to other civs.)(Dutch Empire included)
    Lisbon 1000AD (Portugeuse empire included)
    Madrid 1000AD (More cities underneath it, including Spanish Empire)
    Cordoba 650AD
    Geneva 1000AD?
    Vienna (Dependant on Germany's role) 1200AD
    Warsaw 1000AD?
    Budapest 1000AD?
    Kiev 900AD
    Stockholm 1500AD?
    Oslo 1000AD?
    Copenhagen 900AD?

    American:
    Tikal
    Cuzco (More cities underneath it's control)

    Asian:
    Seoul (no idea for the date on this, but should represent korean civilization, not just when seoul was founded)
    Pyongyang 1950AD? (You know you want it) (Coudl perhaps come earlier and represent other korean states)
    Lhasa 500AD? (Would gain more cities)
    Hanoi 500AD?
    Singapore
    Jakarta
    (I don't know what to do about India, but I would like to represent that India has never been unified for very long.)
    Samarkand (And maybe some more silk road lovin'?)

    Sub-Saharan Africa:
    Mombasa 1000AD?
    Quelimane 1000AD?
    Kongo 1500AD?
    Great Zimbabwe 1000AD?
    Various West African Cities.

    Also I would like to see some mechanic whereby cities originally founded and controlled by civs can become city states, allowing for the collapse of colonial empires and a few other things (Byzantium, Italian city states).
    This is a pretty big list though, I don't expect all to be included.
    And I'll say it again: City states can have more than one city
     
  18. Panopticon

    Panopticon Utilitarian

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    Yangon. Tehran (if the Persians are out; I couldn't really care as Civ V seems so unappealing to me).

    May I now briefly rant about why Civ V seems unappealing? Tactical battles in a grand strategic game. Archers firing arrows across a tile the size of Belgium. Military micromanagement, while pro-military console gamers tell themselves that Civ has finally got rid of the micromanagement just because the non-military game has been lobotomised. That's all.
     
  19. Wessel V1

    Wessel V1 Emperor

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    It appears that you greatly underestimate the firing skills of the famous Dutch archers.
     
  20. SalmonSoil

    SalmonSoil Prince

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    I don't want to turn this into a "ciV sucks, no it doesn't" argument, but I would like to point out that the non-military game has in no way been lobotomised and that Firaxis in no way imagined archers firing across a tile the size of Belgium when they created the 1upt system, just as they didn't imagine it taking 10 years to move across a tile the size of Belgium in the middle ages.
     

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