*whining voice*"What about ___, it should be a civ"

[Pellaken]

I hear that people think that this and that should be a civ. well let me sum it up for you.

my picks:
Spain, it had a large empire, why not spain?
Protugal, its smaller neighbour?
Holland, they too had a large empire, as well as being just plain cool.
Austria, they had an empire
Ottoman Turkey, again, empire...
Arab {muhammed's era}
Inca?
Thai?
Ukranians?
Ballorussians?
Kurds?
Canadians?
Quebecors?
Rhode Islanders??
how about my city?
my house?
or me?
see... it gets out of hand eventually. there are some reasonable suggestions, but the problem is its analog, not digital. there is no line to stop civs. there are a few, for example:
Rome, USA, Ultrapowers
UK, Russia, Ottomans, Austrians, Chineese, French, Spanish, Protugese, Egypt, Superpowers

due to time, it can be argued, who was more powerfull, rome on the day constantine died, or the USA on september 11th, 8:44am NYC time, 2001. personally, I think its very close, but I'd credit the USA with the win. just as I think China is now more powerful then Russia. but in 1996, I wouldent have thought so. so please, dont start more threads about what new civ should be in... but incase you dont listen to me, here's my list:

USA
Rome
Russia
China
India
Iriquois
Aztec
Germany
France
England
Japan
Persians
Zulu
Babylonians
Greeks
Egyptains
-
Ottomans
Hapsburg Austrians
Arabs
Inca
Poland
Ukranians
Holland
Byzantines
Italians
Canadians
Spanish
Sweden
Vikings
Mongols
Hungary

thats my list, 15 more.

 

[RomanLegion]

Quote /my picks:
Spain, it had a large empire, why not spain?
Portugal, its smaller neighbour?
Holland, they too had a large empire, as well as being just plain cool.
Austria, they had an empire
Ottoman Turkey, again, empire...
Arab {muhammed's era}
Inca?
Thai?
Ukranians?
Ballorussians?
Kurds?
Canadians?
Quebecors?
Rhode Islanders??
/

Where does Canada fit? Isn't Canada, America's smaller neighbour? Do you consider Canada a seperate civ? I say Canada like Portugal is more like it's more powerful neighbour. Much of Canada's culture is adopted from the US(except for Quebec). The same thing goes for Australia/New Zealand, and Germany/Austria.

 

[HorizonXP]

How can you say that Canada's culture is "mostly adopted from the US"??

I am Canadian. I am also the son of Indian immigrants, so I have ties to 2 countries. And I can tell you, that Canada has vast diversity, and lots of culture that is totally separate from that of the States.

So please, kindly retract your comment.

 

[Furry Spatula]

Canada's culture may be similar to the states, there is no denying it. Most immigrants culture dies after the first generation of canadian born citizens are born. Thats how it happened in my family. But Canada actually has as much right to be in civ 3 as the US and Germany do. Canada has been a big influence in the world. Well an influence, the degree is up to you.

Peace keeping was "invented", for lack of a better word, by canadians. I believe it was Primeminister Pearson who won the nobel peace prize for getting a solution to the suez canal crisis. And Canada was indeed an important force in WW1, Otherwise explain why Canadains can go to the netherlands and visit the villages and people will be extremly friendly to you if you have a Canadian patch on you. However Americans are treated just like others, not canadians . The Canadian foreighn policies are what seperates us from the States. THe culture is similar, but the peace keeping seperates canada from the states.

There is already a canadian unit out there, the blue cask avaliable for download, so there is a UU. All that needs to be decided upon is what is canada's properties, I think that it could be scientific and industrial. THose are far stretches as i do admit that canada has a weak economy, well not strong enough to deserve Commercial, but canada is pumping out lots of higly trained people, so science seems ok, and Militaristic is of course not suited, look at our puny army. But maybe expansionist could be in there, but im still not sure on that. Industrial should be in there as we have many mines and forestry industries along with our agricultural industry.

Well those are just my ramblings. Agree dissagree it doesn't bother me. Now if i could just focus this much energy on more productive things, Sigh . it started off as a simple reply and got long quickly sorry .

 

[RomanLegion]

Re:/How can you say that Canada's culture is "mostly adopted from the US"??

I am Canadian. I am also the son of Indian immigrants, so I have ties to 2 countries. And I can tell you, that Canada has vast diversity, and lots of culture that is totally separate from that of the States.

So please, kindly retract your comment. /

Sorry HorizonXP but Canada's Culture "is mostly adopted from the US". I too am a Canadian, a 3rd generation one to be precise living in Ottawa and I have found that very little true Canadian culture remains. I am proud to be Canadian but I am also realistic...America's influence combined with mass immigration have stalled Canadian culture to the point were we are becoming completely Americanized. We listen to their music, watch their movies and tv programs, read their magazines, some even read their newspapers and watch their news programs like CNN. Our industries are completely dominated by the US and many of the companies operating in Canada are either American or Canadian-founded but American owned. Hell even our National sport(Ice Hockey) has been Americanized. Our people once had a British accent..no longer, it is now sounding quite American, we have also adopted many catch phrases and words unique to the US.
I mentioned Quebec as still retaining thier own culture, the reason being that they speak French (which affords them the luxury of not having to listen to Britney Spears on every radio station) and they have their own immigration policy.
One last rant!!! How many Canadians still pronounce the letter Z as Zed and not ZEEEEE as America's Seseme Street has taught us.

 

[NY Hoya]

yep, romanlegion has it right...like it or not the Canadian culture has been influenced a great deal by the US. Of course the opposite is true as well. Many of our pop culture icons are originally from our northern neighbor. Quebec still maintains quite a bit of its own culture, entirely due to its French beginnings (read: language, religion, etc)

Not sure if its a bad thing though, I'm sure Austria is influenced similarly by Germany....

Romanlegion: i can still tell the difference between the Canadian and American accents tho, it's house not huis or however you pronounce it

 

[NY Hoya]

i mean, we dominated Central and Eastern Europe at some point in the middle ages (along with the poles) and currently are the dominant western baltic power.......

People do need some perspective. Yes, there are several civs i think have been left out for whatever reason: Spanish, Mongol.....No, not arab, there are two civs which represent the "arab" civilization, probably three if you include persia, at least geographically.....The United States is the most powerful civ in existence today and has influenced all of mankind for generations, to take it out would be absurd. For anyone to argue that the Canadian civ is as important as the American is a bit short sighted.

Just my humble opinion

 

[Ohwell]

Pellaken, your thread ended up being just what you didn't want, now everyone is coming here and complaining about it

Can't you all just make your own civ, man, it is called Editor...

 

[NY Hoya]

Originally posted by Ohwell
Can't you all just make your own civ, man, it is called Editor...

exactly

 

[axe-man]

I don't see the difference between Belorussians (white russians?) and Russians.

---

On the Arabs, they became a true civilization under the Omayyad "dynasty" I think.

Unless you count the Ancient Petrans (Al-Batra), who's cities carved in stone are still standing in the jordanian dessert (and appeared in an Indiana Jones and a Mortal Kombat movie).

 

[filmic10]

Originally posted by NY Hoya
i mean, we dominated Central and Eastern Europe at some point in the middle ages (along with the poles) and currently are the dominant western baltic power.......

Me being Polis and all, I would love to see Poland as one of the original civs (yes iknow i COULD use te editor). As Hoya stated, a Lituanian-Polish Alliance ruled the area during the middle ages.I guess that the good times just aren't enough to match up with all the other bad times

Also, I think that at the least, the Mongols and the Ottomans/Turks should have been included.

 

[RogueNine]

The Mongols, Spanish, Ottomans and Vikings are really the only ones who were left on the chopping block. Canadians? Lituanians? Portugese? I think not. Hey, its great if mod-makers want to make these additions later. I myself have made a Canadian civ and love playing the world map. (Colinizing ALL of North America is more fun than you can imagine... ) But no way should they be included in the original release. The 4 I mentioned at the start of my little prattle probably belong in the game, as they were are big/influential as those that did make the cut. They probably flipped a coin to see who would get cut.



Also, as a Canadian living in Quebec, I think its safe to say that even Quebec is becoming very Americanized. Speaking a different language only takes you so far. Industries, marketing principles, sports, even music (my French cousin listens to Britney Spears ) are all very influenced by American traditions and tendencies.

Anyway, I don't really think its all that big a problem. So what if we're becoming more like our neighbors? Its been established that they're an ok people, even if they do eat too much and spell colour wrong. In Civ 2 I would often play as the Americans, and every now and then, when building a new city, name it a Canadian city instead of Albuquerque or Atlanta. So my civilization looked alot like North America does now. Hmm, someone should make a North American civiliation.

 

[Zouave]

I am amazed people do not include the CARTHAGINIANS as a civ.

Hannibal almost beat the Romans, for God's sake!

 

[NY Hoya]

RogueNine, the whole point of my Lithuanian post was to show how absurd people are in pointing out civs they want in the game....I guess my sarcasm didn't come thru....

 

[NY Hoya]

Zouave,

Hannibal should have a place in Civ, along with the Spanish, Mongols, Vikings, perhaps one or two others...i can think of a couple of civs in the current game we could get rid of....Iroquois, Zulu, hmmmm I know there are others......

 

[RogueNine]

Originally posted by NY Hoya
RogueNine, the whole point of my Lithuanian post was to show how absurd people are in pointing out civs they want in the game....I guess my sarcasm didn't come thru....

Nah, I saw it. I happen to be one of the most sarcastic SOB's around here so you can count on me picking up on it when its there. My post was more just a general post to everyone, trying to get the same point across that you were. I just used the Lituanians as an example since they were mentioned in the thread.

So in conclusion, um, well.. uh, we're both right.

 

[RogueNine]

Originally posted by Zouave
I am amazed people do not include the CARTHAGINIANS as a civ.

Hannibal almost beat the Romans, for God's sake!

Oops, forgot to add the Carthaginians to the list too. As an avid Caesar 3 player I'm very familiar with them too.

 

[God]

And they should replace the Zulus with Mali or Ghana. They were both very very rich in gold and Mali had an empire and at its height the richest civ in the world.

 

[muppet]

NY HOYA:

You are most certainly an intelligent and patient person with an uncanny ability to project a calm and stabalizing influence over those of us of far lesser ability.

I agree, as would most that there are limits to how many civs can be placed in a game -- and it is just a game. With these limitations, if one begins to include Canada and Australia etc... there are going to be arguments from the other side of the world that Taiwan and Hong Kong be included as well. Each is culturally distinct, but for game purposes can and should easily be included within the Chinese sphere. The game is not intended to be a project in anthropology.

Inclusion of America makes sense to me, even if it does not make sense to our European friends. Personally, I think they should look up the definition of Civili"z"ation, the American spelling; eventhough, I doubt that Civili"s"ation, the European spelling means anything different.

 

[black_adder2]

Ok... not trying to nitpick but you have Rome on your 'main' list then Italy as a secondary. That is a bit redundant. Would be like saying let's have Turkey and the Ottoman Empire as 2 sep civs, when what people are arguing for is to fill in holes in civs... like Ottoman being missing... or Moors.

And another thing...

Hell even our National sport(Ice Hockey)

The National sport is actually Lacross. I am not even Canadian and I know that. What's your excuse?