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White couple arrested for pulling gun on black woman

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Let's ratchet it up, with Wells Fargo paying north of $175 million dollars to settle an investigation it steered minority applicants riskier or higher cost loans.

The key distinction in this case also is that you can find tangible, explicit examples. But I will concede that this organization engaged in what *appears* to be racism systemically given the quantity of incidents, and that it amounted to discrimination in practice. It's also worth pointing out that when this happens and can be demonstrated, the law is being applied against it.

How do we define a sorting mechanism that sorts people by an 'indifferent' sorting system, but then results in evidence that something before that system was causing problems? Is the system then called racist?

"Wells Fargo’s business practice allowed its loan officers and mortgage brokers to vary a loan’s interest rate and other fees from the price it set based on the borrower’s objective credit-related factors" then one sentence later says: "This subjective and unguided pricing discretion"

Presumably, it's the use of subjective factors that caused the issue, not objective credit-related factors. A good question is how much predictive value of said subjective value is supported by evidence. It seems Wells Fargo did not have a good answer to that question, and that was duly considered a problem. If only such penalties were consistent.

What would we call each component contributing to the racist outcomes?

If your formula/methodology does not factor race, the outcome is not racist. The problem apparent in Ajidica's example is that they apparently did factor race directly. Though the example reeks of near-identical practice to say, college admissions which are apparently okay.
 
But I will concede that this organization engaged in what *appears* to be racism systemically given the quantity of incidents, and that it amounted to discrimination in practice. It's also worth pointing out that when this happens and can be demonstrated, the law is being applied against it.
QFT.
 
How do we define a sorting mechanism that sorts people by an 'indifferent' sorting system, but then results in evidence that something before that system was causing problems? Is the system then called racist?

I'll use an example. Let's pretend to build a welfare system (in the sixties) that taxes people (regressively) during their working years and then pays a benefit to them after they turn 62. This then allows people to have a higher quality of life in their senior years, and even then allows the passing on of generational wealth. The system itself is 'fair'. It taxes wages. It then pays out.

A generation later, one cohort of workers has a harder time putting down payment for a house, because they inherited less. "Downpayment" systems are also themselves "fair", in that they're just formulas.

What would we call each component contributing to the racist outcomes? I'm asking for definitional reasons. Also, once you can track the etiology of a racist outcome, finding the least painful intervention to correct it (or most effective intervention, dealer's choice) is maybe easier.

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The key distinction in this case also is that you can find tangible, explicit examples. But I will concede that this organization engaged in what *appears* to be racism systemically given the quantity of incidents, and that it amounted to discrimination in practice. It's also worth pointing out that when this happens and can be demonstrated, the law is being applied against it.
Should there not be stronger measures in place to prevent this from occurring? A recent ProPublica shows the current administration is trying to kill or slow walk mortgage discrimination investigations, which highlights a weakness in relying on a government lawsuit approach. The government has laws against commercial fraud to prosecute if someone commits serious fraud, but also have regulations in place to prevent it from occurring along with (theoretically) proactive regulators to nip problems in the but before they become lawsuits.

https://www.propublica.org/article/...probes-into-bank-of-america-and-other-lenders
 
Should there not be stronger measures in place to prevent this from occurring?

What specifically do you have in mind? I'm not going to oppose general improvements to process, those tend to be unambiguously beneficial when the process is handled properly.

When it comes to fraud EA is the first thing that pops into mind because they still get away with it routinely every year. So while the fraud regulations help it's not a silver bullet. I'd certainly be in favor of making it harder to do though.
 
Lock up these thugs threatening innocent people and throw away the key. Typical behavior of suburban minivan drivers TBH, I wonder if they were high on cocaine at the time, I wouldn't be surprised.
 
It's also worth pointing out that when this happens and can be demonstrated, the law is being applied against it.

What does that actually mean? DO you think that the consequences of this discrimination magically vanish because the bank paid a settlement?
 
What does that actually mean? DO you think that the consequences of this discrimination magically vanish because the bank paid a settlement?

They committed a crime and got punished. Same standards as other crimes, including the reality that you can't make victims' damage go away in entirety in most cases.
 
Lock up these thugs threatening innocent people and throw away the key. Typical behavior of suburban minivan drivers TBH, I wonder if they were high on cocaine at the time, I wouldn't be surprised.
You don't think the news articles would have mentioned that? :huh:

Both sides were at fault, for different reasons. The woman should have apologized, the mother should have accepted it. Then both should have gone their separate ways. It wouldn't have escalated.
 
You don't think the news articles would have mentioned that? :huh:

They might not have known. Could be a coverup, lots of these kinds of people have corrupt friends in the police force. All we know for sure is they think it’s acceptable to go Rambo in public, so I hope they don’t wriggle out of this one.
 
They might not have known. Could be a coverup, lots of these kinds of people have corrupt friends in the police force. All we know for sure is they think it’s acceptable to go Rambo in public, so I hope they don’t wriggle out of this one.
Okay, you're just speculating, based on exactly zero evidence. There are at least two videos, one providing footage of the incident and one is an interview the couple gave.

If they had "corrupt friends in the police force" they wouldn't have been arrested, would they? Since they were, your speculation makes no sense.
 
Lock up these thugs threatening innocent people and throw away the key. Typical behavior of suburban minivan drivers TBH, I wonder if they were high on cocaine at the time, I wouldn't be surprised.

I don't think you bothered to watch the actual video. The black mother started this whole idiocy, and it was all her up to the point guns were pulled. Thankfully she didn't get herself accidentally maimed by the car - and all that for what?
Nothing at all.
 
Okay, you're just speculating, based on exactly zero evidence. There are at least two videos, one providing footage of the incident and one is an interview the couple gave.

If they had "corrupt friends in the police force" they wouldn't have been arrested, would they? Since they were, your speculation makes no sense.

They easily could, there are lots and lots of police officers. My speculation is based on logic.

I don't think you bothered to watch the actual video. The black mother started this whole idiocy, and it was all her up to the point guns were pulled. Thankfully she didn't get herself accidentally maimed by the car - and all that for what?
Nothing at all.

She did a service to society by helping everyone realize what psychopaths these suburban minivan drivers were. It was 100% their fault for choosing to brandish guns against other citizens instead of relying on truth and debate.
 
They easily could, there are lots and lots of police officers. My speculation is based on logic.
So because some cops are corrupt, that means this couple were using cocaine at the time when a bat-<censored> crazy woman was screaming racial epithets at them and banging on their vehicle because of a very minor incident that could have been taken care of with an apology?

No, you are not speculating based on logic. You are speculating based on "the evil minivan driver is automatically supposed to take this crap and not react even when provoked." I'd hazard a guess as to what else the speculation is based on, but I don't have evidence for that, so I won't.

She did a service to society by helping everyone realize what psychopaths these suburban minivan drivers were. It was 100% their fault for choosing to brandish guns against other citizens instead of relying on truth and debate.
Would you watch the friggin' video before indulging in uninformed nonsense? :huh: The woman in the vehicle tried her damnedest to de-escalate the situation and leave, but the black mother wouldn't even listen. She kept screaming racial epithets at the couple and threatened the husband, using the phrase "yo' white ass" and then decided to pound on the window - vandalism if anything was damaged, btw, and exceedingly stupid to do when the vehicle was in motion.

I don't excuse the gun, but I do excuse the couple for being fed up with this unprovoked racist screaming, screeching, and ranting by the black mother (who was yelling that the white couple were racists, when in fact they hadn't said even one syllable that was inappropriate).

IF anyone was on drugs in this situation (and there is zero evidence that anyone was), I'd suspect the mother over anyone else. Even the daughter tried to get her to stop and she wouldn't.
 
So because some cops are corrupt, that means this couple were using cocaine at the time when a bat-<censored> crazy woman was screaming racial epithets at them and banging on their vehicle because of a very minor incident that could have been taken care of with an apology?

No, you are not speculating based on logic. You are speculating based on "the evil minivan driver is automatically supposed to take this crap and not react even when provoked." I'd hazard a guess as to what else the speculation is based on, but I don't have evidence for that, so I won't.


Would you watch the friggin' video before indulging in uninformed nonsense? :huh: The woman in the vehicle tried her damnedest to de-escalate the situation and leave, but the black mother wouldn't even listen. She kept screaming racial epithets at the couple and threatened the husband, using the phrase "yo' white ass" and then decided to pound on the window - vandalism if anything was damaged, btw, and exceedingly stupid to do when the vehicle was in motion.

I don't excuse the gun, but I do excuse the couple for being fed up with this unprovoked racist screaming, screeching, and ranting by the black mother (who was yelling that the white couple were racists, when in fact they hadn't said even one syllable that was inappropriate).

IF anyone was on drugs in this situation (and there is zero evidence that anyone was), I'd suspect the mother over anyone else. Even the daughter tried to get her to stop and she wouldn't.

You're being trolled Valka.
 
Calling people racist is a racial epithet?
 
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