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White Hand

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Valkrionn, Dec 11, 2009.

  1. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Looking for some background on the White Hand. What would it's shrine be called? What units would the religion have? (I've gone with a Frostling Archer, a Frost Giant, and Fiacra as the hero... Stir from Slumber can be built by anyone following the religion (Assuming they've killed a civ) to serve as the second hero.)


    This is the background I'm using:

     
  2. Del Valle

    Del Valle Chieftain

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    Considering the fact that Mulcarn is dead, a religion based on the White Hand doesn't make any sense as it would be powerless.

    Nice story though.
     
  3. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    I don't believe it would be powerless; If so, where do the divine magics of the Priests of Winter come from for the Illians? Mulcarn himself may be dead, but the precept remains.

    Whether it's arcane of divine in nature is unimportant; It DOES exist, the people could see it, and it's usually very easy to get people to return to the evil they know as opposed to that they do not (Ice vs Hell, in this case). I think it's a perfectly valid religion.
     
  4. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I'm not sure what the shrine should be called. During the Age of Ice, its most holy site was probably Mulcarn's palace atop Mount Mulyr, which was raised with him from his hell into Erebus. Since his death it has collapsed into what Auric Ulvin later found and named Letum Frigus. (That is Latin for "Cold Ruin," but Frigus is not an adjective and Letum is the state of death or destruction than the remnants of a destroyed building. The two words may be in apposition, equating coldness to destruction. As Patrian often seems to be Latin that was declined poorly or simply taken from a Latin dictionary by someone who does not really know how to use one, Kael perhaps meant it to be Letum Figoris, "The Death of Coldness," meaning where Mulcarn died rather than a cold place lying in ruin.)

    If this is supposed to be a pre-AoI holy shrine, I don't know what to call it. You could follow the pattern of the Empyrean's Dies Diei (Day of Day) and the Council of Esus's Nox Noctis (Night of Night) and call it something like Frigus Frigoris (Cold of Cold) or maybe Hiems Hiemis (Winter of Winter).




    The disciples of Mulcarn were known as the Frost Speakers. Their rituals are reminiscent of the Cult of the Octopus Overlords, but they are strictly rational and utilitarian rather than emotional and dreamlike. (It may be worth noting that Danalin was the chief deity worshiped in the small Illian border village where Auric grew up. This was after Mulcarn's death and after Danalin started dreaming, but before the Overlords came to be. The temple however stood there to guard an ancient lake monster and so almost certainly had been there during Mulcarn's reign. It would seem Mulcarn did not really mind the worship of the neutral god Danalin, perhaps because they were both enemies of Bhall.)

    Spoiler AoI civilopedia, Disciple of Mulcarn entry :
    The Frost Speakers, disciples of Mulcarn, were tolerated by most nations in the Age of Magic. They would pledge allegiance to no sovereign, but they did not speak sedition, either. Well beyond stoic in their demeanor, followers of Winter lost passion of all sorts. Initiation to this order involved bathing in icy waters overnight. Those who survived the 'baptism' usually had their outlook changed dramatically by it, without need of theological debate.

    These cold men now lead the armies of their god. Slow to adapt to their enemies' tactics, their strength lies in unflinching rationality, carrying out their plans unhindered by fear, ambition, or personal attachment. They will patch up wounded soldiers with divine aid of their god-king, but evidence suggests their compassion is something to be desired. More than once Amurite recon patrols have found badly wounded Illian warriors buried in the snow--occasionally still breathing.



    Fiacra is but one of the Aquilan, great eagles that are widely believed to chase blizzards but in fact create them wherever they go. She may be the greatest of them, but she is not unique.



    The area around Letum Frigus is populated by the Hollow Men, ghosts of long dead ancient warriors loyal to Mulcarn who cling to the notion that their god will return. They are not ready to accept that they are dead, and will not move on to either the Underworld or to Hell. They may view the mountain as the afterlife they were promised, but they are too afraid to enter the corridors of the ruined palace. The undead souls have long stopped anyone from approaching that holy ground, but when Auric emerged from the sacred ground they swore fealty to him. They appear thin, pale, and nearly invisible in the snow. They are not brave or strong enough to challenge the mighty but like to rob the last bit of warmth from those lost in the wastes. They might make a good weak and early religious warrior. I can definitely see them upgrading to Eidola.


    I could imagine the greatest warriors of the Hand being Nive Riders. Now, there is no reason to believe that the Nive are actually ever ridden, but I like the idea of seeing great champions mounted on these large grey-furred beasts. I tend to think of them as giant wolves are bears usually so covered in snow as to blend in with the terrain.


    I could see white hand units summoning swarms of Kocrachon, the biting locusts from the marshes low in Mulcarn's hell. These are weak, but can sap the strength from the mighty until they cannot support their own weight. They lay eggs in victims which eventually hatch into a new swarm of Kocrachon that kill the living victims as they burst out of their flesh. I could see this working my passing on a promotion which slowly decays into promotions that make the unit weaker and slower until it finally kills them and spreads to other units nearby. (I'm not sure if you'd want to actually use a unit too or just promotions) You'd probably want to let priests and Grigori Medics remove the promotions like they can disease or else it could be ridiculously overpowered.
     
  5. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    I'd assume the shrine would be new, honestly... Not sure how long the original would have lasted after Mulcarn's death, not with so many people hating him.

    Fiacra is far from unique; She is in fact WEAKER than the others in game, as they are used by the Frozen for their chariot UUs. Nives and Kochrachons are also in. ;)

    I tried to pick units that wouldn't step on the toes of either the Illians or Frozen too much. ;)
     
  6. loocas

    loocas Chieftain

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    Just a thought about the shrine. For coming up with a shrine you might consider what the other shrines are. Tablets of Bambur, Necronomicon, and Code of Junil are all written works, there's Song of Autumn, and Stigmata of the Unborn is probably considered an art form by Veil followers. I'm not sure what Deis Dei and Nox Noctis are supposed to be. Structures maybe, given that they have their powers of hiding and revealing. Point is they embody the aesthetic of the religion in both totem and mana.

    Taranis the Unchanging as he appears in AoI is probably what the Hand shrine would be, at least aesthetically. Don't know what the actual object would be. Sucellus's heart would be a good one, as it's a trophy of Mulcarn's defeat of life, but that was apparently reclaimed.
     
  7. TC01

    TC01 Chieftain

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    Actually, the Aquilan are the Knight UU for the Frozen. The Kocrachon are the Chariot UU, and Nive are Ranger UUs.

    All my Frozen unique units came from the Bestiary, except for the Ice Golems.

    Nive Riders might work, but you might want to make the Nive look different from Polar Bears if you do that.

    Hollow Men might also work, since they're the one thing I didn't steal from the Bestiary.

    Kocrachon work by passing a promotion called "Nested" to units in combat. After a few turns, Nested will any unit it is on, and then the Frozen (or the Barbarians) will get a few weaker Kocrachon that are temporary- "Young" Kocrachon. So you could summon a Kocrachon, I guess.
     
  8. Dietas

    Dietas Chieftain

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    A good unique wonder/improvement would be Utgard, the fortress occupied by Drifa during the Age of Ice. Other unique things include the giant dungeon from the time called the 'Chancel' and the tropical island.
     
  9. lumpthing

    lumpthing generic lump

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    Indeed, where do those divine magics come from?
     
  10. Del Valle

    Del Valle Chieftain

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    In the game they just use Ice spells of Arcane magic.
     
  11. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Chieftain

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    Arrrgh.... First and foremost, what that "Arcane Magic" stuff means? Literally "hidden, known by few" magic? Which had been historically applied to the magic having as its source a certain fallen angel which places it into the category of 'divine'?
    In order to cast an "Ice magic" spell on a scale of massed snowfalls over a large territory there must be either access to the elemental plane of ice or transmuted power from a node or a worshippers as i am not aware of existance of pure ice nodes - even in FfH2 they are get manipulated by adepts before becoming 'ice' - OR to a powerful godlike being possessing a vast reserves of 'icy' essence. As i can see it, those White Hand priests just used the mindless remnants of Mulcarn as their power source.

    All that was said is based upon my personal comprehension of the public (not arcane) sources, FR and MoM mostly.
     
  12. cyther

    cyther Lord of the Dance

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    Arcane magic is used by mages manipulating the power of magic. Although this is taught to them by the Goddess Ceridwen, mages do not need her do perform magic. This magic is channeled by the user's divine spark. It is technically known by few because the mage guilds are very selective.

    Divine magic is the power of the Gods. Priests can pray to the gods who may aid them with magic but priests can't do magics without the gods.

    The gods are the most powerful beings that were ever created. (They are actually the angels of The One). They alone can access the infinite elemental plains and have nearly limitless power.
     
  13. mahazel

    mahazel Chieftain

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    Aren't even the Gods forced to use power of their sphere drained from the Gems of Creation? They are most powerful creatures in Erebus, but they don't have they own power of Creation anymore, because The One took it from them.

    EDIT: Hmm, if so, it create one question - what happened to corrupted spheres gems? Is there still Gem of Hope or now it is Gem of Despair (if Gem of Hope ever exist of course)?
     
  14. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    All gods but Dagda had created their own worlds of just their own element before creating Erebus, as well as some worlds where 2 or 3 gods worked together. The gods can drain these worlds of power if they need to.


    Their divine sparks are quite powerful and they wrote the laws of physics and so know them well enough to bend the rules greatly. However, since loosing the power of ex nihilo creation no change they make can last forever.

    Also, the gods hold within themselves deep wells of power. This power is not infinite and can be depleted if not recharged from the infinite wells, but is still great. In fact, Arawn cut himself off from Erebus because mortals had been channeling life and death magic directly from him and there was nothing else he could do to stop that.


    Agares stole the gems, but made their power available to all the gods. Not even Junil or Sirona refrained from using the power he gave them, no matter how much they chastised him for his actions.


    I'd say the elements are still the same, but changes in the personality of the avatar of a precept causes them to behave differently. Access to gems of creation of a now evil sphere would not give one a source of an undefiled power. Kael has stated that the good forms of the evil precepts are lost to the world. However, I tend to think that all evil spheres can still be used in their original form by someone with enough strength of will and purity of heart, although it is extremely difficult not to succumb to the temptation of the dark side of each corrupt sphere
     
  15. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Chieftain

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    Again, good ol' beardy Jordan. "The male half of the Source" is "tainted by the Dark One" and male source users have to draw a pure saidin along (and thru) all that corruption. Which shorts the lifespan, and causes rot and madness along with some discomfort.
    "Good forms are lost" imo just mean that corresponding gods are unwilling (or due to their 'deaths' unable) to do good stuff from it no more and there hardly anyone who's able doing it for them - even accessing spheres of power. Requires godly skills, u'know... Though Auric - he might be able...
     
  16. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Chieftain

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    AHAHAHA:lol: another mighty (and foolhardy, as the gods concerned) ROFLZ:goodjob::
    before this shocking revelation i was in dark of why all those who abuse magic power are get along with it just fine? A god unable to withstand an onslaught of gnat-like [humans]mortals... That's an epic... also explains why it's scarce now...


    Yes, yes... and where the One Creator got his power? A dazzling HUGE infinity beyond our tiny speculations which main point is to get some fun
     
  17. ClasuSiosa

    ClasuSiosa Thespian of the Sword

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    An alternate idea for the Kocrachon. When you convert to The White Hand you get x# of them, then when they 'nest' in someone they die (doing small dam., and x% chance of nesting) and the attacked unit gets a "nested" promo which gradually weakens him (maybe can be resisted/ healed) and dies, which spawns 1-3 Kocrachon units.
    Kocrachon die when attacking even if nesting was not succesfull.
    If your original Kocrachon die before nesting units you loose the ability to have Kocrachon until you have advanced enough to summon(weakend) Kocrachon, and start the cycle over again.
     
  18. dunedainjedi

    dunedainjedi Chieftain

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    Why not call it the Temple of Auric? Since this is the age of rebirth the White Hand follows Auric in his quest for ascension not Mulcurn. It seems like the most holy place for a Follower of the White Hand would be where Auric's seat of power. A temple where he is worshiped and rules from. The center of his power.
     
  19. Sheogorath

    Sheogorath Chieftain

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    What exactly are the values of a Disciple of winter anyway? Are you supposed to be stoic, creepy, and unchanging at all times and worship Mulcarn by spreading ice everywhere?
     
  20. graywarden

    graywarden Chieftain

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    Valkrionn,

    Are these three the names of the High Priests of Winter??

    If they are not can you direct me to where I can find them?

    Thanks
     

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