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Who-5: Tom Tom Club builds a party lounge training game

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Whomp, May 19, 2006.

  1. Theryman

    Theryman King

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    Well then, btw means by the way. Let's hope you are Canadian, because I use 'eh' a lot. But do not worry, ! \/\/1|| |/-\-/ ()ff -|-3|-| |33-|- &#167;|03/-\|<.

    Anyways, England is seafaring and what? Agri?

    Also, do you recommend CivAssist or CivAssist2? Which is more convenient?
     
  2. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Found my drum, American Civil War:



    Edit: Added this analysis:
    Which leaves:
    1. America (maybe): Industrious, Expansionist; F-15; Modern GA
    2. England: Seafaring, Commercial; Man-o-War; Middle / Industrial GA
    3. Hittites: Commercial, Expansionist; 3-Man Chariot; Ancient GA
    4. Incans: Agricultural, Expansionist; Chasqui Scout; Ancient GA
    5. Iroquois: Commercial, Agricultural; Mounted Warrior; Ancient GA
    6. Netherlands: Seafaring, Agricultural; Swiss Mercenary; Middle GA
    7. Portugal: Seafaring, Expansionist; Carrack, Middle GA

    I don&#8217;t think we want our Golden Age in the Ancient Times (rather, I don&#8217;t want our Golden Age then since it is generally wasted) and that would eliminate three civs, leaving us with these four to really consider:

    1. America (maybe): Industrious, Expansionist; F-15; Modern GA
    2. England: Seafaring, Commercial; Man-o-War; Middle / Industrial GA
    3. Netherlands: Seafaring, Agricultural; Swiss Mercenary; Middle GA
    4. Portugal: Seafaring, Expansionist; Carrack, Middle GA

    I am going to assume that everyone has played America before. For us, a bad UU, but no cheap buildings, just faster workers. We have a wet climate, so faster workers would be helpful when we road/chop jungles and marshes.

    Of the other three, all are Seafaring; no obvious advantage to any of them. England is commercial, but needs cities over size 6 (IIRC) before that trait kicks in. The Dutch get extra food and reduced granary costs; that and seafaring could lead to an explosive early land grab. Their UU is a Super-Pike and if it triggered a Golden Age it would be at a time the Dutch would have enough cities to really take advantage of it. Portugal gets a scout and therefore friendly barbarians, which could mean early tech trading advantage.

    Just for me, I lean towards the Dutch. I just got C3C and have not played using these Civ traits, so that appeals to me. We would have to watch our worker moves more carefully than if we were the Yanks, but we will need to do that anyway.
     
  3. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    I'd use civassist II or Crpsuite. They are both great utilities btw. England is seafaring and commercial.

    Nice choice. The Dutch traits mix well IMO and their UU is a cheap musket.
     
  4. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    I use CrpSuite (MapStat) during the game because its information is easier to navigate and read, during a game, than CivAssistII, at least for me. MapStat is a small spreadsheet that is plain, unfussy and very useful. It aslo does not use a lot of system resources.

    I use CAII for non-playing time analysis. It has more 'what-if' tools than MapStat. It has a prettier interface than MapStat. It needs more system resources than MapStat, which is why I don't use it during a game.

    Really, the best thing to do is to download both and game with them both. I have an older system (PII, 500 MHz, 128 RAM) so that affects how I rate the two tools.
     
  5. goodsmell

    goodsmell Psychonaturalist

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    I'm in ! I just was'nt home @ friday
     
  6. SimpleMonkey

    SimpleMonkey King

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    lurker's comment: From my own games, I'd say that the Dutch are too powerful for a good teaching game. Agri plus early contacts plus awesome uu plus (let's not forget) prime start techs (one for early accelerated growth, one for trade or a prime research path). Just a thought.
     
  7. Ansar

    Ansar Détente avec l'été

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    I could win any day with a AGR civ.., lets try Liz. I have never used the Man-O-Wars.:devil: :cool:
     
  8. goodsmell

    goodsmell Psychonaturalist

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    I prefer to start with England , I never tried to play as England after the 3rd Era .
    and I think SimpleMoney right , so we won't choose the Dutch .

    I think we also can try with America , we'll have our F-15 only at Modern Ages , but our workers will road / chop /mine faster . I think it's a great advantage .
     
  9. Bucephalus

    Bucephalus Shooting from the lip....

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    England for me too.
     
  10. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    OK England it is. I agree the Dutch should be used for your first deity victory. ;) Be back in a little bit with some starts to discuss.
     
  11. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    OK here are the pictures. Discuss and I will load the save you decide to use.

    I'd like to hear some thought going into tech strategy and early worker tasks. Bucephalus will lead us off because he did a nice job in another attempt at a training game and I feel he deserves the opportunity to lead you off. As well, I'd like to break Bucephalus and goodsmell up, rosterwise, since they are in a European timezone.

    Tom Tom Club 1


    Tom Tom Club 2



    Tom Tom Club 3



    Tom Tom Club 4

     
  12. Ansar

    Ansar Détente avec l'été

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    Comments from the "Frog Extraordinaire":

    Tom Tom Club 1

    +Cow
    +Freshwater(River!:drool:)
    +couple BG's
    +plenty of forests to chop :hammer:

    -not that much shield production
    -just looks like grasslands...(without BG's)

    TTC2

    +luxury(spices) :D
    +Freshwater(river!:drool:)
    +Cow
    +forests to chop
    +nice terrain variation(plains and grasslands)

    -the mountain and the hill are both not in 21-tile reach
    -we may not have enough food...

    TTC3

    +Cow
    +Freshwater(lake...)
    +BG's

    -not enough shields
    -doesent look like mountains nearby
    -no extra(extra) commerce from rivers
    -no choppables for quick stuff

    TTC4

    +Cow
    +Freshwater(river!:drool:)
    +BG's
    +a hill and mountains :hammers:

    -no choppables for quick stuff
    -could have lots of mountains

    I personally like TTC2 and TTC4. Nice map RNG, Whomp!:rockon: :thumbsup:
     
  13. goodsmell

    goodsmell Psychonaturalist

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    I think we will choose one of the 1st starts .
    the 2nd start is pretty nice , Cow , river plus luxury :) :)

    and as Whomp said , forest to chop .
    on the 1st start with BG , forest , cow . everywhere we start along the Coast , I think that's good we'll can send Curragh to meet someone nice :)
     
  14. Bucephalus

    Bucephalus Shooting from the lip....

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    Right...... No pressure then.

    Starts 1 & 4 look best to me.
     
  15. SimpleMonkey

    SimpleMonkey King

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    lurker's comment: TT4 wins out over TT2 if it were me. I'm comparing where you are in the world map. Okay, I'll be quiet now.
     
  16. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    lurker's comment: I also like starts two and four. I would join this but I have the won't read disc error for conquests (for those of you that don't know, this bug appears after downloading a patch and it prevents you from playing the game-does anyone know how to uninstall the 1.22 patch? I really want to play C3C again, even if it's at the 1.00 patch :( )
     
  17. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Easy Growth
    TTC 1 - river - good
    TTC 2 - river - good
    TTC 3 - no river - bad
    TTC 4 - river - good

    Eliminate TTC 3 since it lacks a river. It does have 3 BG's, which would be nice. We can find BGs later.

    Resources in the Initial 9 Tiles
    TTC 1 - Cow, BG, 3 Forests
    TTC 2 - Cow, Spice (?) in Forest, 3 Forests
    TTC 4 - Cow, 3 BGs (one covered by initial placement)

    Wildcards in the Inital 9 Tiles
    TTC 1 - none
    TTC 2 - goody hut adjacent to start
    TTC 4 - goody hut adjacent to start

    World Map Placement
    TTC 1 - SE Corner of the world map, facing the SW. Coast line to the NW may turn back to the NE. Coast to the S will have to break back to the E shortly to avoid the South Pole.
    TTC 2 - SE Corner of the world map, facing SE. Looks like we are on the corner of some sea. Coastlines both E and S look to contine for some time before they change directions.
    TTC 4 - Northern middle section of the world map, facing E. We are in a cove of some sort. Coastline to the N appears to come to a point in the fog and then break back to the NW. Coastline to the E appears to gently slope to the SE.

    Capital City Placement
    TTC 1 - Right where we are.
    TTC 2 - Sort of stuck here, in order to be on the coast and have access to the river to grow. But building here, we pop the goody hut. It could have barb warriors. We would have the river as a defensive bonus, but the barbs could get lucky, defeat our warrior and then sack or destroy our city (not sure which).
    TTC 4 - Need to move SE to build. If we build where we stand, we negate the BG bonus. If we move SE, we get it back because our city tile always produces one shield, regardless of what terrain it is on. If we move SE we gain one shield and can still use the BG where we stand now. Also, moving SE moves us away from the goody hut. It will be popped in ten turns on our first cultural expansion. By that time we could have a second warrior built to handle any barb units in the hut. Unlike TTC 2, here we have no river between us and the hut. However, by moving SE, the cow is no longer in our initial nine tiles.

    Start Preference
    TTC 2 is a bad place to start because the first few turns could be very bad for us. It all depends on what is in the hut. Too risky for my blood.
    TTC 4 is much better, but early turns are still focused on dealing with the nearby goody hut.
    I prefer TTC 1 since it lacks any goody huts. No distractions. Here we could focus on what we should do and not have to worry or plan for what the goody hut could do to us.
     
  18. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    Good analysis so far.
    This is one of the few times you won't pop barbs. When a city border expands over a goody hut no barbs pop. You may get nothing, maybe maps but sometimes you get goodies. When placing cities in the future this can be a benefit and should be somewhat of a consideration when placing cities. It also works when you're two tiles away and cultural borders expand.

    Let me add to this...if you get a tech it will always be in the AA only and the cheapest tech by beaker cost. It won't give you a tech you have or a tech you are researching.

    • You have alpha and pottery so what would the tech be that you'd get?
    • Let's say you're about to place a city and you've just started researched something. Strategically, is there a tech should you set your research on?

    Gmaharriet will give cookies to the person who answers these correctly. :D

    Let's finalize your start choices. It's fine to discuss amongst yourselves but I'd like to give you a save.
     
  19. Bucephalus

    Bucephalus Shooting from the lip....

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    1) Ceremonal Burial
    2) Ceremonal Burial
     
  20. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    Yes on number one but on number two yes but why?
     

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