Who-5: Tom Tom Club builds a party lounge training game

[Bede]

lurker's comment:

Excellent points, vxma.

And Whomp has been taking lesson from Tubby. Getting the food to match the growth was precisely the right move, and the one I would have missed.

@gma, what I eventually took away from Cracker's article was his mode of analysis. The concept of powerful tiles provides a very good method for coping with situational variations. You match the development work to the nature of the power you are seeking. Interestingly enough the concept carries right through the entire game, not just the opening, as needs change as the game develops, but the requirement for efficiency does not.

 

[SimpleMonkey]

lurker's comment: A minor point about the trading. Bronze Working in itself may not have been that crucial, but it sets you up to be able to trade for Iron Working as soon as another civ researches it. This is a handy thing.

 

[CommandoBob]

Known World 3000 BC


Where do we build our next city?

To me, Blue and Green Dot both look good. Both are on rivers, and thus can grow to size 12, which is the first thing I look for in planting cities this early. They need to be able to grow freely.

Green looks a little better than Blue since it will not overlap tiles with London. It also has two sugars waiting to be exploited and improved.

What I don't like about both of these is that units leaving London will cross an unbridged river, which means that these cities are two walking turns away from reinforcements.

Red Dot is sortof iffy. I hope it on fresh water, but that is a bit of guess and hope.

I think our third city needs to be south of Adrianople, unless we want the Byzantines to war with the Mongols.

Hmm, at Emperor and with even tempered neighbours like the Byzantines and the Mongols, should we move a scouting warrior to that new city, in case the neighbors turn frisky? Or is exploring and meeting "Strange new civilizations" (true for me, one of my first games on Conquests) more important for a few more turns. It would take the south warrior 6 turns to get to Green; London could build one in 10, maybe less.

Not a real thorough analysis, but I wanted to get the discussion started on city placement.

I haven't looked at worker turns yet, nor given consideration as to what London should build next. I favor a warrior as London's next build, which would go to our new city.

 

[Smart]

Imho blue dot it perfect for second city - green is too far away from capital, and it's not good for second city, because it will get more corruption. Rank corruption for second city is very low, so if we will build it there it will be almost uncorrupted.
About red dot: you can click on the water to see how many food it have (2 - fresh, 1 - salt). If we will not find any resourses later, we can build there our third city, it will also prevent Theodora from expanding in our direction.

Worker moves - after irrigation on cow we must connect ivory to save gold for research. Irrigation on it works well too.

Also, what the citizen is doing on ivory? Yes, two commerce is a nice bonuce, but when we will pop out a settler we will go back to size 1 losing 4 commerce. At the early stage of game 2 food > anything else, especially in capital. I think, priority levels must be like this: food > commerce > shields.

 

[Vind2]

Wow i've alread learned alot from this game.

 

[Ansar]

Forgot my drum, here it is.



and like Vind2 said, I have too learned alot from this thread already.

 

[Bede]

lurker's comment: Green Dot has "build me" printed in the middle. Blue Dot is at best mediocre. Put the FP in Green Dot and the corruption and waste will practically disappear. All in all Green Dot has the potential to be a strong producer of commerce and shields.

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Green Dot has "build me" printed in the middle. Blue Dot is at best mediocre. Put the FP in Green Dot and the corruption and waste will practically disappear. All in all Green Dot has the potential to be a strong producer of commerce and shields.

Sugars + River + Flood Plains = / Nice location...

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Green Dot has "build me" printed in the middle. Blue Dot is at best mediocre. Put the FP in Green Dot and the corruption and waste will practically disappear. All in all Green Dot has the potential to be a strong producer of commerce and shields.

But the green dot is 4 tiles away from London. Although your cities nearby will have basically no corruption at all, farther off cities will be totally corrupt.

 

[Whomp]

You've got some tough decisions on city placement here since there aren't a lot of rivers nearby for city placement.

With that said I have to go with Bede on this one. Since there aren't too many river tiles near the capital maximizing whatever rivers (even more than lakes) are available is extermely important. The key is to get the most productive cities on the best tiles for the core even at the expense of spacing and rank corruption. That is green.

Corruption is not a problem if its managed properly and something that will be a long discussion when the time comes. You're very lucky to have Bede lurking this thread since he is masterful in his use of specialists. I highly recommend you read his "War academy" article because we will discuss this in the future.

Something that wasn't dotmapped is what tile will you sue for a city to capture the incense to the north?

 

[CommandoBob]

Something that wasn't dotmapped is what tile will you sue for a city to capture the incense to the north?

Oops!

Did not look northward since that would not be where we put our second city. Focused on city #2. Only mentioned a third city because of the lake/sea by Adrianople and our neighbors are so close and could be fidgety.

Will get that dotmap amended once I get home.

 

[Vind2]

All this advanced discussion is makeing me fell noobish

 

[Bede]

lurker's comment:

The key is to get the most productive cities on the best tiles for the core even at the expense of spacing and rank corruption......


Corruption is not a problem if its managed properly

These are two key points that should be engraved in the lintel of every monitor. Corruption is manageable, mediocre lands are not.

 

[choxorn]

I still think the FP should be built farther away.

 

[SimpleMonkey]

lurker's comment: Distance is not significant in C3C when placing the FP, as distance corruption is not the same factor as it is in vanilla or PTW. What you want in your FP is a productive city site that will benefit from minimal corruption. It won't create a second city core for reducing corruption, but it will produce a decrease in the corruption that you suffer overall due to the number of cities you have.

 

[vmxa]

lurker's comment:
Yes FP placement is an after thought in C3C. Unless you have a leader to rush it, you tend to make it close to the captiol as those are the places that can do by hand in a reasonable amount of time.

I have had a few games where I just let it purculate away, but it is not common. Just get it up some place and not sweat it.

If it was C3 or PTW, then you want to take care with it, it is very important then.

 

[goodsmell]

Here I learned one more thing , I was always building the FP far from my capitol , I thought it used as it was in Vanilla and PTW . I thought he used for "2nd" capitol .

and I still don't understand the point with crossing river ( sounds newbiee I know ) , but what is the problem to across the river ? what will it damage ? what will be changed ?

 

[SimpleMonkey]

and I still don't understand the point with crossing river ( sounds newbiee I know ) , but what is the problem to across the river ? what will it damage ? what will be changed ?

lurker's comment: Before you have Engineering (and can thus build bridges) crossing a river ends a unit's movement for that turn, even if that unit had more movement possible (e.g. a horse or any unit on a road). This delay in movement can be quite significant, as when trying to move workers or units for combat.

Rivers also offer a defensive bonus. Your units recieve this bonus when they defend an attack coming from across a river, and your attackers will likewise have a tougher job of it when trying to attack across a river themselves. This bonus doesn't go away with the arrival of bridges.

 

[choxorn]

Not my point. In C3C I once built my FP in a city 5 tiles away from my palace. cities within about a 10-tile radius of these cities were great, other cities were totally corrupt (I ended up winning the game, though). Oh, and does difficulty level have a corruption factor? I ask because this game was on Cheiftain.

 

[vmxa]

Level has no effect. The cities were affected by being close to the palace. Distance is a factor in corruption, to the palace. The FP will lower corruption in the FP cities and have a small impact on a few towns next to it.

Often it does next to nothing for those towns. It depends on how far they are from the palace and the OCN.

What was your point? Antedotes are sometimes entertaining, but seldom are informative. Not to be too harsh, but I have read a number of your posts and as often as not they are confusing to the issue at hand. You should take more care about them and not just slap in coments to be part of the discuss.