Who are History's 10 greatest military leaders ?

To suitably finish the thread:
Out of two idiotic generals, one shall eventually win a given conflict and be hailed as a military genius.

By people who judge commanders based on the opening blurbs of Wikipedia articles. Nevertheless, there's this fascinating study called "military history" that examines the circumstances of and decisions made by officers in wars throughout history, of which an important element of which is observing how victories come about.
 
Not really. Its just abused and overused, both in historical context and otherwise.

Kind of like here.

well, whatever you want to call it - clearly the most backwards and dysfunctional monarchy in Europe at the time, for a long time. And nobody has answered the original relevant question, which was, why is Suvorov so highly regarded ?
 
well, whatever you want to call it - clearly the most backwards and dysfunctional monarchy in Europe at the time, for a long time. And nobody has answered the original relevant question, which was, why is Suvorov so highly regarded ?
Because he really did win a lot of military victories. He was also the hero of Russian nationalist historians who went back after the Crimean War and started trying to pick apart Austro-Russian relations, looking for every instance when the sneaky vile Habsburgs stabbed the good stolid loyal honest Russians in the back. Suvorov is claimed to have been a target of this, without which he could have single-handedly defeated the French in Switzerland and brought down the French state before Napoleon went on his march of conquest. All baloney, of course, but that doesn't stop nationalists. His reputation subsequently looks artificially bad when that context is noted.
 
Thanks, thats the kind of insight you don't get from scanning a wiki article. I know he won some tough battles, and the devotion of his troops. Had his own style, and maybe was never defeated. Last Generalissomo of Imperial Russia, author of a famous book, and mistreated by a pious(?) Tsar. Thats enough for anybody. I was just wondering if there was something else.

and sorry for sounding like I was taking a cheap shot at the Ottomans. I just wanted to get past the definitions and recognize there were some systemic problems for sure, but maybe they were past the worst of it. They did win Belgrade again in 1739, and secured a reasonably favorable treaty with Russia and Austria. I also note that they defeated Pyotr Velikiy on the Pruth in 1711, so no one can assume his campaigns were a simple affair.

It does seem to me though, that the Russian armies had a considerable advantage at the time and enforced it rather brutally, whether it was against the insurrection of Polish nationals under Pulaski and Kosciusczko, or the Turkish garrisons of Ochakov and Ismail. It doesn't necessarily define him or set him apart, but kicking ass with a strong army you helped build, and having a few massacres to your credit has a superficial resemblance to Cromwell, though I will say Suvorov had a better sense of humour, :)
 
well, whatever you want to call it - clearly the most backwards and dysfunctional monarchy in Europe at the time, for a long time.

So just call it that. No need to try and sum it up into a single word.

And nobody has answered the original relevant question, which was, why is Suvorov so highly regarded ?

Because he ran the greatest fighting withdrawal through enemy territory since Hannibal.
 
Because he ran the greatest fighting withdrawal through enemy territory since Hannibal.

yah, forgot to mention that one. Not the least remarkable because of his age at the time he did it. I don't know any detail about the actual crossing, but it was the last military exploit in his career - for Hannibal it was just the beginning.
 
Just remember that prior to Napoleon, the Russian Army was the most excellent in all of Europe. Friedrich der Große, who routed the French and Habsburg armies as habitually as he blinked, was routinely defeated by the Russians in the Seven Years' War.
 
Just remember that prior to Napoleon, the Russian Army was the most excellent in all of Europe. Friedrich der Große, who routed the French and Habsburg armies as habitually as he blinked, was routinely defeated by the Russians in the Seven Years' War.
'Routinely' here having the meaning of 'half the time'. :p
 
Sorry for reviving this thread, but I wrote this mini-essay for something else, and I thought I'd share it here:

There are two ways to judge a military commander. The first is by the standards of how well they fought, and the second is by in what manner they changed warfare.

The first category consists in commanders that were masters of the art of war in their own era, but did not change how war was fought. The first subcategory would be excellent tacticians, or those who made intelligent decisions during individual battles. An example would be Friedrich II von Preußen, who routed a much larger Habsburg army at Leuthen by hiding behind a hill in order to march his entire army to one of the enemy's flanks, thus negating his own inferiority in numbers through local superiority. Another case would be Khalid ibn al-Walid, who was gravely outnumbered at Yarmouk, but nevertheless scored an incredible victory through his own personal cunning in wearing out and scaring the enemy into submission.

The second subcategory would be excellent strategists and logicians. They did not have to crush a stronger army in one battle; their maneuvers in the broader campaign were sufficient enough to win the war. Ulysses S. Grant is an example of this. He made numerous blunders in individual battles, especially Cold Habour, but his overall strategy was brilliant; especially at Vicksburg, where he locked a Confederate army into an inescapable position through tricky movements. Fabian or guerrilla warriors such as Chairman Mao, Bertrand du Guesclin, Vo Nguyen Giap and Skanderbeg are likewise examples of this. They were well aware that they often had little chance in pitched battles, so they chose to capitalize on when their enemies were at their weakest.

The third subcategory would be in personal charisma. Even if commanders don't win battles or campaigns, their mere presence can have a huge effect on how soldiers choose to fight. Grand Duke Nicholas Nikolaevich of Russia is a good example of this. He was not an extraordinary strategist by any means, and the Russians fared poorly on the Eastern Front of World War I. But his enormous stature, handsomeness and eloquence were inspiring to his men. Erwin Rommel was reported to have a similar effect on the Afrika Korps, and his name became legendary among the Allies. Jean de Valette and George Augustus Eliott were able to endure sieges at Malta and Gibraltar with the odds heavily against their favor through force of will and refusing to surrender.

A combination of the above three subcategories include men like Arthur Wellesley, the 1st Duke of Wellington, who -- while generally not considered to be a genius -- was an exceptional tactician, strategist and charismatic commander. He organized the Peninsular Campaign and the Waterloo Campaign, and the French were overcome not by being steamrolled by an invincible commander, but by being outmatched in resources. Another case would be Julius Caesar. He was an amazing tactician, as seen by drawing a fourth line of infantry to counter Pompey's superior cavalry at the Battle of Pharsalus. He was also an extremely effective strategist and stunningly charismatic, as shown by the conquest of Gaul and its aftermath. Other cases that encompass the above three subcategories include Alexander Suvorov and John Churchill, the 1st Duke of Marlborough. They were masters of their own era of warfare.

The second category would be in in what ways the military commanders in question changed how wars were fought. The first subcategory of this would be in technological innovations. Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba re-organized the Spanish army to create the tercio, a pike-square formation that was undefeated for 100 years. Another example would be Helmuth von Moltke, who developed the General Staff system that was so successful for the Germans in the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian Wars, that it was promptly adopted by every Great Power in the world. Strategic innovations are also to be noted; at the Battle of Leuctra, it was established that a superior army could be defeated through local superiority, and Epaminondas' echelon formation broke the Spartan army before him. Likewise, Hannibal's perfect encirclement at Cannae became the model annihilation battle that many commanders thereafter sought in their own campaigns.

The other subcategory would be in intellectual advancements. For instance, Carl von Clausewitz's Vom Kriege put an entire new frame in how war is viewed. It was so influential in the course of military theory -- especially in the notion of the "fog of war" -- that often, even today, plans are ridiculed as being "not Clausewitzian enough." Heinz Guderian's concept of the Blitzkrieg also brought Europe out of the World War I mindset. While the ultimate intent in strategies is often to cause or escape encirclement, Guderian went about it in a different way. Instead of simply outmaneuvering the enemy or denying them supplies, he would also strike at the enemy's nerve, which was principally demonstrated in the Battle of France. After breaking through at Sedan and racing to encircle all of the northern French, his lines were terribly vulnerable and prone to disaster, but the French high command was utterly paralyzed and were unable to counter-attack. Such a method of warfare would later be adopted by the Israelis in the Six-Day War.

So now, I present the case that Napoléon Bonaparte was the greatest military commander to ever live: because he encompassed everything above in their entirety. No man would deny his tactical genius at Rivoli, Marengo, Austerlitz, Friedland, Bautzen or Dresden; no many would deny his strategic genius in the Italian campaign in using his inferior numbers to defeat his enemies individually; no man would deny how almost mythological he became amongst his men and legendarily feared amongst his enemies; no man would deny that the use of the turning movement in the Ulm Campaign inaugurated an entirely new epoch of warfare; no man would deny that even today, people look back on his campaigns for inspiration for decisive victories. Although I do have to count the fact that he became sloppy and overconfident in his later years, he was simply the greatest commander to ever live. He changed the way war was processed. In the 18th century, wars were fought for typically a decade over ten square kilometers in Belgium. In a matter of a few months (August 1805 to December 1805), however, Napoléon had wiped out three Allied armies and occupied Vienna with less than 20,000 casualties. He was a born to an entirely unnoticeable Corsican family and came to be an emperor over most of Europe almost entirely through success in war. When asked who the greatest military commander in history was, the Duke of Wellington responded, "In this age, in past ages, in any age, Napoléon." As much as I despise the values that Napoléon represented and fought for, I find it impossible to disagree.
 
Thanks for the interesting post LightSpectra. I wouldn't have seen it if i didn't happen to idly check my spam folder and see it there ! It seems you got your own subjective rating scale which is certainly defensible. I personally think there are two other leaders who won equally stunning victories with less, and whose charisma or legendary status outshone Napoleon's, even respected or admired in the land of their enemies, not to mention facing tremendous logistical and natural challenges.
 
I'm assuming one of those is Alexander the Great; not sure who the other is. Genghis Khan? Tiglath-Pileser III?

My thesis is that Napoleon is the only commander in history that proved himself a master in all five subcategories. Although there may be a greater tactician or a more influential theorist in history, they weren't all-rounders in the same manner. It's the same logic for why Babe Ruth is the greatest baseball player in history.
 
I was thinking of Hannibal as well. But i dont deny for sheer volume of achievement Napoleon is #1. I also think his story is better documented and studied relative to some others. But as I once said, no one who has the most disastrous retreat in history to his credit can truly be the best all-time. All that said i rate him 3rd tied with Giulio Cesare.
 
I was thinking of Hannibal as well. But i dont deny for sheer volume of achievement Napoleon is #1. I also think his story is better documented and studied relative to some others. But as I once said, no one who has the most disastrous retreat in history to his credit can truly be the best all-time. All that said i rate him 3rd tied with Giulio Cesare.

There is no doubt that the decision to attack Russia was certainly a bad campaign decision, but in terms of skill on the battlefield it did nothing to really diminish Napoleon's record. Napoleon's curse was that he simply did not know when enough was enough and became convinced of his own invincibility. The sheer number of enemies that came to be combined against him was unstoppable. Still, there probably is nobody else in history who could claim the astonishing amount of victories against opponents that were often times superior in numbers. Hannibal was similar, but he lost the Punic War as well despite his victories. Alexander is certainly admirable, but except for his dramatic defeats of massed Persian armies, but other than his record is more about success through sheer will.
 
In no particular order
Alexander, Hannibal, Julius Ceaser, Napolean, Suvarov, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Shaka, Charlemagne, Joan of Arc
 
Hello LightSpectra, and thank you for your analysis.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, although you did omit two interesting and often unmentioned details:

1) Napoleon was NOT an unnoticed Corsican peasant ! May I quote from wikipedia:
"Napoleon was born in Corsica to parents of noble Italian ancestry and trained as an artillery officer in mainland France"
The truth of the matter is Corsica was donated by the Republic of Genoa to France a short time before Napoleon was born. Had Genoa enjoyed better fortune, Napoleon would have been born a Genoese, not a Frenchman (although even in this day and age most Corsicans grimace at the thought of being described as "french") and quite possibly joined the Genoese Navy rather than the French Army (and there would have been no Empereur, no French takeover of Europe, no Restoration at the Congress of Vienna in 1815).
This is also confirmed by the fact that "the little Corse" (as he was called by his comrades) was admitted ato the Military School in Marseilles as a Cadet in the French Imperial Artillery, from where he graduated at the age of 16. Had he not been of noble descent, he would have never been admitted to the Artillery; the borgeoisie were only admitted to the infantry and the engineers - only aristocrats were admitted to the cavalry and artillery, because only in those two Corps were subaltern Officers allowed a horse.

2) Napoleon's military genius became evident during the French Revolution when he embraced the cause of the Revolutionaries, and invented "manoeuvre of artillery fire"; before napoleon, each Division was composed of a number of Infantry and cavalry Regiments, and a few Artillery batteries; Napoleon regimented those batteries and exploited their effect by concentrating the fire of his artilelry all on one specific target, then on another specific target, and so on. He was also the first to determine the importance of "artilelry tables", that is, pre-made calculations set in a booklet which allowed the commander of a battery to determine powder charge, elevation and other parameters in order to fire quickly and effectively on any one target, as long as battery and target were on the same map. This meant his "Regiment d'Artillerie" could fire two, three quick salvos onto one target, and within very few minutes (which, in those slow-moving days, were lighting quick) steer all his guns on another target.

Napoleon lost at Waterloo because, among things, the ground was muddy and his explosive shrapnel rounds would go "plop!" in the mud rather than bounce and explode.
 
'Nobleman' in this sense refers to titles and not much else. Proper nobles didn't tend join the army. The poor and indignant with only the name to trade on did.
 
It was quite common for younger sons of noblemen to join the military as it provided the opportunity for advancement.

No, he did not have a title of his own (that would have went to his older brother), but that he was still definitely not a peasant.
 
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