Who are the best leaders for early and prolonged warmongering?

Slax

Prince
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I have only played a few games, have always chosen leaders at random, and have done little early fighting. (Note - Prince level).

If BTS is being played, who are the best leaders (Considering traits, UU and UB) for early and prolonged warmongering?
 
Charismatic (keeps population happier during war, easier promotions) + Organized (keeps larger empires more manageable immediately, rather than needing time to mature like financial). Job's a good'un.
 
Darius
Julius
Huayna
Shaka

All come immediately to mind. I am finding Darius way to easy on Monarch, Aggressive AI, Raging Barbs. If I play him again it will be on Emporer.
 
I'd say that the Romans are best for early and prolonged war. You just tech BW -> IW and then pump out Praetorians for a couple of thousand years until you upgrade them to CR-3 Grenadiers and then take over the rest of the world.

With other civs, you have to worry about diplomacy and tech paths and strategy and all that other useless garbage. With Romans, you just go and take over the world.
 
Hammurabi of Sumeria is great for early and prolonged since the vulture is basically a swordsmen that only .3:strength: weaker against archers and ziggeruats allow you keep those cities. If we don't consider unrestricted leaders then Gilgamesh is still pretty good but basically forces you to rush to get the most out of it. Boudica of Rome will allow play always war wants you get iron working though you'll have to raze pretty much everything.
 
Depends on what you want, they are a lot of good civs but some of them are slightly different and fit into different overall strategies.

Just saying early war isn't that specific :p people have different ways of going about it.

If you want to just have a powerful unit and not really have to think to much go with Rome, like someone said you just pump them out and ppl die, they are pretty hard to counter, but the leaders kinda got nerfed.

What is early too you also? ;) like 10 turns or a 100 heh

Darius is good money wise but that's just because his traits are ******ed, I despise the Immortal, people love it, I hate it, it obsoletes extremely quickly and even though it gets a +50% vs. Archers I find if the archers are promoted in a capital you take heavy heavy losses and if it's on a hill or holy your better off just leaving it be because your gonna lose more then it's worth, it's also just about one of the easiest units to counter.

Boudica is a absolute monster in military matters but she lacks anyway to support her economy so you have to be good with money and running a decent economic infastructure.

It changes based on if you want to run a CE/SE also.

My absolute favorite warmonger is Shaka of Zululand, he's the one people don't give enough credit :) He's like the powerhouse no one talks about so he wont get nerfed haha :D

If you wanna talk about synergy and early warfare/rushing you can't do much better then Shaka, he's a beast and if the AI is using him on Aggressive AI on a higher difficulty.. watch out.

Shaka:

- Traits -

Aggressive: This allows him to build his Unique Building which replaces a barracks at half cost, it also allows him half speed drydocks in the later game, but what your looking for is the free Combat I promotion which allows him to instantly specialize his units with City Raider, Medic, Shock, Cover etc.

Expansive: This allows him to get workers out with a 25% bonus to hammer production which translates into earlier hook up of copper and quicker chopping to rush build your army, he also is allowed granaries at half cost which allows him to start using the slavery civic effectively in addition to the chopping to really spit out some elite units before anyone else.

- Unique Unit / Unique Building -

Unique Unit: His Unique Unit is a Spearman that gets 2 Movemant and a Mobility Promotion, this allows you to have a excellent mobile medic or spit out a few and rush into there borders over any terrain and cut off any strategic resources they may be in the process of hooking up, makes an excellent pillager. (This unit is very strong in its own right, unlike the praetorian though it takes more subtlety and tactic)

Unique Building: His Unique Building replaces the barracks but grants an additional -20% to city maintenance, this is huge in the early game since most people wont be able to access this kind of ability till Code of Laws, you'll be conquering a lot of land through warfare as Shaka and this allows you to maintain those cities instead of just razing them, very, very powerful building. (Considered one of the strongest UB's in the game.)

When you look at Shaka on paper he seems just average, he looks decent but nothing that really pops out at you and that's what makes him so great, most people don't complain about Shaka because most people don't know how to use him right ;)

- Starting Techs -

Hunting: Most people don't like to start with Hunting but with Shaka it fits perfectly, it allows him an early scout to pop a few huts for gold to finance your early expeditions, it allows him to quickly find his enemies and it also opens up his Unique Unit right out of the gate to further increase the speed at which you can get it speeding across the map.

Agriculture: Agriculture is a pretty decent starting tech, your going to need it no matter what so it's nice to start with it, it also allows you to get your food production going immediately to start whipping and making good use and fast recovery of your whip and get the most out of your half cost granaries.

His strength doesn't come from a super powerful unit, or a super powerful building or trait combo, his power comes from his synergy, he's an absolute monster at early rushing. He doesn't rely on any one unit or any one trait, his power comes from all of it coming together perfectly, to one aim, early domination :)

I don't think I've *ever* lost a game as Shaka, if you try him remember if you don't take advantage of some early whipping/chopping and a good axe rush with a couple impi to use as pillagers your wasting him.

Using the Impi correctly will take some practice but once you figure the unit out it is quiet devastating, the speed at which it can reach the enemy is what makes it powerful, its mobility and its lack of a real counter to its pillaging, a axeman cant catch it and a horse cant kill it.

Shaka just has such great synergy he can dominate as a nation not as a single unit, you'll be powerful through the entire early stage of the game, you don't just commit yourself to one strategy, you can just play a game geared towards early rushing with the happy knowledge you can do it faster and better then the other guy.

Someone recently Quecha rushed me while I was playing Shaka, he thought it was a good strategy.. He admittedly got to me before I could get any copper hooked up, but because Shaka is Aggressive he was essential just matching my warriors 1:1.. You could do that with any aggressive leader most players don't build archers so it was totally pointless, I just massed warriors lined them up and fortified them and used them to guard a worker while it hooked up copper and then he ran for the hills.

Thats whats good about Shaka, there is nothing risky about using him, you play and you win, your just more efficient at pumping out units and maintaining a stretching empire then anyone else in the early game.

Granted, if you run into Rome you better know what your doing ;) Just use Shock axes match um up 1:1 and you should be fine, also use the Impi to pillage his iron mines and break his roads around his cities/Iron just keep him crippled and he will become a docile creature, your shock axeman you can get out of the gate should be enough to fend of praetorians and he'll sue for peace just to get your Impis out of his land, it's very annoying to have Impis running across your territory destroying everything.
 
Very interesting comments. I have been a bit of a darius man but that immortal rush is not easy to get just right, though awsome when you do and I'm getting a bit bored of unpromoted units.

May well try shaka tonight as will be quiting a recent game that just never quite made it.
 
Shaka is the best warmonger in my opinion. Cheap granaries and cheap barracks that also reduce maintenance cost allow you to start spamming units in your captured cities right away.
 
I was playing Boudica last night (of the Celts, for those who use unrestricted leaders), and having a great time kicking my neighbours around, but was struggling to pay the bills!

Her traits make her an obsolute war goddess. It's quite something to have combat 3 axemen coming out of training, a point away from gaining march (great for keeping your forces in the field), and all Gallic warriors got guerilla 2 before a city raider promo, many quickly earning further city raider promos or guerilla 3.

The dun is rather underwhelming in my opinion, but if you try to chose hilltop sites for your cities (and with the early Celts I'd highly recommend this) then it'll help your archers: guerilla 2 will aid both their garrisoning ability and mobility in hills, and you can add city garrison on top of that. Once you get to crossbows then guerilla 2 and even 3 can be worth the investment if they're to actually go out and fight. Not useless by any means, but hardly an I-WIN button.

The Gallic warrior, though much maligned, can be a fine unit but it depends entirely on getting hilly terrain. If you're playing the Celts and you get a particularly flat land, well you're just getting swordsmen that can be built with copper or iron. That's hard cheese, I'm afraid. If, on the other hand, you get good ranges of hills, you're laughing. Your swordsmen are now faster than cavalry (who will suffer terrain penalty), and getting them off those hilltops will be tough for any attacker.

I made a point of building forts on strategic hills stationed by an archer and Gallic with guerilla promos. The archer fortifies and holds the fort, the Gallic ranges out to dispatch invaders, barbarians etc, and returns to the fort to heal up. Against a larger force, they hold up in the fort which would be costly for an attacker to take, particular for the sake of two units. So far these have given me very robust borders.

As noted in previous posts though, Boudica is a dedicated warmonger. Your economy and culture will need close babysitting if you don't want the wheels to fall off. The additional happiness of charismatic is nice, and I'd recommend a determined effort to bag Stonehenge.

I've only played her up to th 1300s, and I could imagine unless she has a stellar start, she might well decline as the years progress and other civs get their later period buildings and units.
 
Why does everybody always forget Victoria?

Early and prolonged warmongering? You need to pay the bills and she's got financial. Imperialistic starts helping you out from the outset. Just when you're starting to get financial problems in comes the stock exchanges and stomp them all out by getting to gunpowder first and back it up with the Redcoats.

She's the best to build an empire upon which the sun never sets. Really.
 
But that ugly mug... well, I guess thats a plus; if you choose her, you'll never have to look at it ;).
 
alex, I think, on top of being aggressive his UU is very early and very powerful
 
I'd say that the Romans are best for early and prolonged war. You just tech BW -> IW and then pump out Praetorians for a couple of thousand years until you upgrade them to CR-3 Grenadiers and then take over the rest of the world.

With other civs, you have to worry about diplomacy and tech paths and strategy and all that other useless garbage. With Romans, you just go and take over the world.

Agreed. But for non-cheesy (i.e., non-Roman) war games I'd prefer anyone with maintenance-absorption ability (Fin or Org; or special stuff like Charlie's UB, or the Sumerians's UB (I think?), or Shaka's UB) paired with Charismatic for easy promos. Agg isn't as good in many cases but can be pretty good as the Shaka-user SickSycle above posted.
 
I admit Charismatic is much better then Aggressive in the long term "big picture" as it were, but if your looking to focus on early warmongering I'd say Aggressive is superior in that respect since it automatically opens up your first tier of promotions.

The way I usually end up dominating with Shaka in the late game is by creating a large and powerful empire in the early game that allows me to carry on through.

Another leader everyone forgot is Hannibal, now that you mention Charismatic .

Hannibal is Financial/Charismatic, he's one people don't talk about a lot, his UU gets some getting use to but it can be very useful if you figure it out, and his UB got a boost in BtS from trade routes getting a boost, goes well with financial too.

He's my second favorite leader but I can never seem to play a game through with him.. Prob because of the historic inaccuracy of his graphics ;) they recently did a genetic mapping analysis of some of the pheonicians and there blood line and they found it actually wasn't going back to those ... lebanese?? (that is spelled way wrong) they found the blood line was actually nubian same as egyptians, if you check some of the only non-roman (aka non-faked) artifacts of hannibal you'll see his characteristics are nothing like what the romans portray.

He has dark skin, curly beard, and a flat nose.

He's the farthest thing from a white man as you can get.

Hannibal prob takes the most strategy and tactic to use out of all the leaders, well to utilize everything fully, which is appropriate since he was one of the greatest generals in history.
 
Actually, I'll also add an honourable mention to Hannibal. I've played him MP and despite having only a small inland sea, therefore little mileage from the cothon, his trait combination works well. One of my friends always (and I mean *always*) plays the Romans, because of the uber praetorians. They weren't so uber when they ran into a few shock promoted Numidian cavalry, I can tell you!

It's a bit of a toss up between aggressive and charismatic, but charismatic has a non-military bonus in it's happiness modifier. If you can nab Stonehenge, so much thew better. Of course, this is at the cost of immediate shock/cover/medic etc of aggressive. I've already sung Boudica's praises though ;)
 
I'd say if your biggest problem is happiness, charasmatic leaders get +2 happiness very early in the game. There's a +1 automatic bonus and a +1 bonus from the monument, which you can build after researching mysticism.

If your problem is upkeep an organized leader will keep your economy afloat while your campaign drags on.
 
Celts suck, but Boudica has the most synergetic traits for war mongering.With Vassalage+Theocracy running, you can get highly promoted units out of the gate. I'm currently playing a game as Boudica of Rome. All I can say is "Muahahaha!"
 
no one has mentioned this yet,

But SITTING BULL!!!!

Early rush with dog solders, ub helps archers, wth uber archers, the early wars won't cost you any cities. ;)

But it's the meideval era where sitting bull is strongest, CROSSBOWS. Crossbows, UB, Sitting Bull's traits, Barracks, what more can i say?
 
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