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Who are the best leaders

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Bast, Aug 30, 2007.

  1. D Wolf

    D Wolf Chieftain

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    My top 3:

    I. Saladin - Treated his enemies with great chivalry and was so generous, when he died and his family opened his treasury to buy him a grave it was empty since he'd given all his money to charity.

    II. Gandhi - Played a large part in liberating India from British rule. Not what you would traditionally call a "leader" but was so inspiring that many followed him regardless.

    III. Bismarck - United all the German tribes, was superb at both warfare and domestic politics. Considered by many to be the world's top leader in his time.
     
  2. Peng Qi

    Peng Qi Emperor

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    Irrelevant.
    Well, Supply-Side Jesus was funny, but it was one gigantic strawman argument. :p
     
  3. GenerallyCrude

    GenerallyCrude Chieftain

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    When I say that Russia's economy was weak, that's what I mean. It was. You say that they are one of the strongest economies today, and I would agree that in terms of capital they are fairly influential. (despite my burning hatred for Russia, a country that large cannot help but succeed, however infrequently)

    I still wouldn't consider it 'strong', however. Why?

    Oil, natural gas, metals, and timber account for more than 80% of exports and 32% of government revenues, leaving the country vulnerable to swings in world commodity prices.

    The vast majority of that statistic is oil. (Around 65 and 25 percents). Is an economy essentially pegged to one material resource a strong one? In that sense, I would compare it to the Spanish economy in the siglo de oro

    As for your other point, I can indeed argue that Stalin's actions caused the economic downfall of the Soviet Union. Wiping out your middle class is never a good economic policy, and he did it repeatedly. Other things contributed (the manner in which Gorbachev conducted perestroika, for example) but the sheer idiocy of Stalinist (and communist) economics was responsible for a large part of that collapse.

    Finally,

    "How do you know the chinese military is weaker than the American. Many thought the Russian military was invincible before the Crimean War, but were proved wrong. It's impossible to say how the Chinese or any other military force will fare until they are actually in combat."

    Because every available statistic says so. We've been watching the Chinese very closely for the past decade and a half, because we thought they might be the Soviet successors in the bipolar system the world formerly maintained. The Chinese aren't technologically innovating or updating(The Israelis are selling them our technology. What the hell?), their strategic position is at best vulnerable, and in weaponry, training, and military spending we blow them out of the water. One of the reasons they haven't attacked Taiwan. Certainly not because their government is nice. It's because, every few months, we send carriers through the Straight of Formosa and fire into the water as a reminder.

    To say "You can't know." and cite incidents where analysts have been wrong is simply avoiding the question.

    Finally, supply side Jesus is wrong. (The view that the comic espouses. Supply Side Jesus is cool.) Amusing though. You win the joke.
     
  4. Blaarg

    Blaarg Prince

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    It was simply pointing out the fundemental difference between modern conservative economic philosophy and Christianity. While so many conservatives claim to be true christians, thier economic policies don't come anywhere near what Jesus really preached.
     
  5. 951

    951 Chieftain

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    Ahimsadharma, great first post. Unfortunately, most of the follow-ups are absurd and filled with unparalleled levels of ignorance.

    Do you not see that you're just as close-minded as all the Americans and Christians you put down with your completely asinine blanket statements?

    All my country has done is rape, pillage, kill, and torture all the other poor little countries of the Earth. Is that right? And then you call me and my countrymen ignorant and brainwashed because we don't agree with you?

    You sir, are a first-class, major league, d-bag.

    Have fun typing up your response on that nifty computer you have there. I forget who we have to thank for that type of fantastic, groundbreaking, change-the-world technology. I know one thing, it definitely couldn't be some genocidal bunch of morons like America.
     
  6. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

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    ^ I'll follow the off-topic direction this time by saying that I agree that China's position is much more vulnerable than America's. All the 'states has to do it seems is control the waters around it (hydraulic empire, no threats from Canada or Mexico - I'm not sure about how much teeth are on any of the South American countries but they don't exactly have a open avenue). China on the other hand has got it's backside deep into the Asian continent surrounded by nations that may or may not be friendly (or even threatening, I'm not really sure) - plus Japan and South Korea, both American allies, breathing down its neck.

    Anyways, that's kind of how I've assessed it.
     
  7. Blaarg

    Blaarg Prince

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    yes...because America miltary policy of the last 50 years has been so wise as to to stay where we've had the advantage. I can never see a situation where America's excessive hubris causes it to go and fight a war where the enemy has the advantage....:rolleyes:
     
  8. Blaarg

    Blaarg Prince

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    Blah blah blah...I hate commies...blah blah blah

    a little out of date, but I'm sure you'll enjoy:
     
  9. 951

    951 Chieftain

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    Haha, I always get a chuckle out of "Here be....Something else" where Australia should be.
     
  10. Peng Qi

    Peng Qi Emperor

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    Except they are exactly what Jesus preached.

    Jesus didn't say "you should force everyone to show compassion whether they like it or not!" A core concept of Christianity is the idea that God gave you the power to choose to be evil. Unfettered capitalism is the only way to give people that choice. You're supposed to give out of the goodness of your heart, not because the government forced you to. And remember: American conservatives give more to charity as a percentage of their total income than American liberals by a humongous margin.
     
  11. Imperator1984

    Imperator1984 Chieftain

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    Napolean in my opinion was a great leader, even if he did eventually die defeated. Julius Caesar and Alexander were great also, too bad Hitler isn't in the game.
     
  12. BENdage

    BENdage Chieftain

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    My votes would have to be

    1. Bismark - for uniting the squabbling German states and defeating France (at that point the most powerful in continental Europe) in 1870
    2. William Pitt - Prime Minister of Great Britain. Fought France, Spain and others, particularly in the Caribbean and securing the sugar plantations that were the cash crop of the British Empire for the next 100 years and funded the Napoleonic Wars.
    3. Simon Bolivar - for ensuring freedom from European rule for much of south America
     
  13. Arlborn

    Arlborn Legendary Noob

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    But conservationist governments do tend to force us to do somethings we don't exactly want to... :hmm:

    They tend to do that slowly too, so you don't see it until it is too late. That is the story of so many extreme governments. They do love to paint themselves as heroes, see if the don't. :crazyeye:

    And when we see it, we can't even voice our opinions without being considerate anti-nationalist in many places by many people. And then the government decide to come in, and then, uh, HALP!!


    OK, it is not necessarily true, but it happened so many times in history.

    And I did fly from one subject to the other, and to the other... :lol:
     
  14. Blaarg

    Blaarg Prince

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    Complete nonsense, you can have a well regulated capitalist society and still leave plenty of room for choice.

    That's because conservatives generally have a lot more money. It's a heck of a lot easier to give to charity when you're not struggling to pay the bills. Percentage of income is irrelevent because it doesn't take into account cost of living. Generally people only give to charity what they have left over after they have bought what they need. (and people have different ideas of what's considered a need)

    Much of America's poor and middle class are foolishly living above thier means, there's little room left for charity if you're doing that. If you're not living above your means, like most upper class people, then giving to charity becomes much easier.

    You also get tax deductions for giving to charity, and a lot of conservatives would rather give thier excess money away to charity than see it go to the evil government.
     
  15. Peng Qi

    Peng Qi Emperor

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    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1
    Arthur Brooks, the author of "Who Really Cares," says that "when you look at the data, it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more." He adds, "And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."
    ...
    The second myth is that the people with the most money are the most generous. You'd think they'd be. After all, the rich should have the most to spare and households with incomes exceeding $1 million (about 7 percent of the population) make 50 percent of all charitable donations.

    But while the rich do give more in overall dollars, according to the Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey, people at the lower end of the income scale give almost 30 percent more of their income.



    So, it turns out you're completely wrong in every way. How does that make you feel?
     
  16. Blaarg

    Blaarg Prince

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    I stand corrected. It's a sad state of affiars when the poorest are the most generous.
     
  17. Peng Qi

    Peng Qi Emperor

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    Now there's something we can agree on! :D
     

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