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Who here has killed acheron lately?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Inkling, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. Kranden

    Kranden War is the real diplomacy

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    One word, Domination, who cares about the useless dragon horde, were talking about a potential army of FREE archmages here. Nuff said. Last game as clan I had 4 archmages with Domination and walked away with 8 sons of the inferno. They were all lvl 7-10 GGGGGGGG

    OH and then I taught them to Dominate people.... Good times.

    Also remember if you can get your hands on an Ice mana and use the level 3 spell they wont be able to do anything but sit in their town and look pretty. Ignore archeron until late game because most civs arent going to be able to touch him for a long time.
     
  2. Kranden

    Kranden War is the real diplomacy

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    Actually after the patch It worked once I got 4 sons of inferno then the game crashed and I haven't been able to do it since.
     
  3. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    In our multiplayer dwarves controlled 7 sons of inferno. It was crazy :p.
     
  4. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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    Ah... that was fun. Too bad I lost them all in the end. Not much of anything can stand up to Blinding Light + Ring of Fire spam...

    How does being blind make you completely immobile anyway? Seems like the spell should hamper visibility or combat ability, not restrict movement.
     
  5. DaveGold

    DaveGold Chieftain

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    Try it sometime. After a few steps you won't be tempted to go many miles.
     
  6. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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    Oh, I have been blinded before. I would usually prefer to stay in one spot, but if something is attacking me, I would run away from that thing, blind or not. The fact that a mage or two can completely immobilize your army and pick them off one by one is ridiculous.
     
  7. CurseUppl

    CurseUppl The bureaucracy expands.

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    And a blind army would be useful how?

    I think the best doctrine (as a soldier) is to stand your ground and wait for the blindness to pass, instead of just firing blindly (causing friendly fire) or running (into a spiky pit or a river), even if you get mauled by the enemy.
     
  8. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Yes I agree with both of you. That blind ARMY cannot go anywhere, and that the spell is one of the best spells in the game even while it's a lvl II spell. I thought that army-paralyzing spells would look better at tier III (much better than useless elementals anyway :)).
     
  9. Earthling

    Earthling Chieftain

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    Can dispell magic remove blind? Anyway I agree it's a rather powerful one but a lot of the stack-affecting/stack-damaging ones have that problem - they should probably only affect 5-10 units rather than a whole stack.
     
  10. Onionsoilder

    Onionsoilder Reaver

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    So you would take guaranteed death over possible death or injury from getting into an accident while blind?

    Nope. Revelation can't either.
     
  11. Lord Alvon

    Lord Alvon Chieftain

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    I don't mean to sound ignorant, but what are "Sons of the Inferno?"
     
  12. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    It is a new barbarian unit, similar to an Archmage but with free Fire I-III, that was introduced in Patch K. They appear in and defend Acheron's city. (Technically, I think it is the Mage-equivalent Disciples of Acheron that appear/are built, and then they are upgraded to Sons of the Inferno. Once the upgrade is available to the barbarians it typically takes place immediately, and the upgrade is available very early, so in practice Disciples of Acheron are only seen briefly after Acheron claims his city.)
     
  13. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    Patch k, actually (I was planning to answer his question, too, so I checked the first post of the bug thread to be sure).
     
  14. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Wait, DISPEL doesn't remove "blindness"? This is totally wrong. I thought of it as of a possible counter, and now Blinding Light looks like a real tier 3 spell :).
     
  15. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    If I may enter the conversation.

    There are many explanations why it would be strategically and practically more viable to stay put than remain mobile in conditions of horrendously impaired visibility.

    Firstly, let us examine the scale of the landscape.
    Each tile in civ represents wast tracts of land, possibly many miles.

    Can you imagine a military unit marching miles upon miles without any coordination?
    What would happen if they chose to move is that within moments all morale would fail and the retreat would turn into a massive flight. The troops would be running into each other and the attacker would have free rain to destroy them at his leisure or let them run in circles for hours before finishing them off.

    Secondly, let us examine the units in question.
    A unit of infantry represents both the fighting men, their commanders, and in case of any promotions assisting auxiliaries, medical units (with medic 1), possibly slaves that tend to the supplies etc.

    What would happen if they chose to move is that the slaves and auxiliaries would run for them self (think of it as loosing those shock and barrage promotions) and the commanders would either try in vain to regroup the unit or more likely just run for their lives.

    Finally, there is the matter of effect. Lets say you are fighting on a battlefield facing a bunch of Axeman. Your company adept casts blind yet these axeman nether panic nor run, they just stand their ground.
    Do you know the spell worked? And by the time you test it out will the effects not fade? Bonus points for the defender if some of his units in the rear are unaffected and are waiting their turn to strike.
     
  16. DaveGold

    DaveGold Chieftain

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    I think there are there similar spell effects in tier 2, the slow from the ice line, blinding light from the sun line, and charm from the mind line. All slow down an invading army and I expect they are purposely meant to cause trouble for big stacks. Slow, blinding flash, and druid root all have two turns where they take effect on the first turn, wear off on the second, and you can't refresh the effect by recasting second turn, so I believe you can't keep a unit permanently rooted (with the same spell maybe). A whole stack may stand still but that's only because it's owner doesn't want to split the units up. Pacifism lasts for a random length of time and is quite useful now, although I tend to forget what's going on and pacify a stack before attacking it with mimics.

    I can't see that keeping part of a stack still for a turn is as potent as snowfall, domination, summon aurealis, wither, etc, to be honest.
     
  17. Lord Alvon

    Lord Alvon Chieftain

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    Aah, that explains it. Don't have patch K yet... And i'm using FF...
     
  18. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    I personally think that Dispel should be able to cure blind, slow, and Charm.

    I mean ... getting body mana is a quick fix for fighting the Illians and their SLOW adepts (grumble :p ... my moroi were eventually victorious)

    Charm is less counterable but more annoying to deal with (unless your running away from enemy SOD)

    Blind is by far the WORST of the spells, and can even affect non-living units like Ships, Catapults, and Golems. So either Blind should be Tier III and Empy special units, or it should be allowed to be dispelled by Dispel.
    I was thinking maybe a Esus spell or a Shadow spell called SHADE could give a higher resistance to blind, or a possible counter ... although not entirely sure how or if such a counter would be implemented.

    Making Dispel a better overall counterspell could certainly help to combat the problem ... however if my SOD wasn't over in INfernalLund then We really wouldn't be caring about Blind as much ... because in the end the main use of blind is to protect your lightly defended areas from a massive invading army using a smaller force. Sometimes Blind can be used to strengthen one side's chance for victory ... however usually its more a logistical advantage.

    I can certainly recall that all the times I "won with blind" were not because my massive army killed their massive blinded army, but my garrison was able to stave off an invasion of the homeland while my SOD returned.
     
  19. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    This. A stack of 10 champions with 2 priests of winter and 2 mages being unable to do anything is quite OP.


    No, there're no similar effects. Slow is just a crap and tier 1 so it's ok, and charm is resisted all the time and still allows your units to move.

    While a stack of 10 champions dying to sand lions and being unable to do ANYTHING. Don't you think it's overpowered? :p

    I totally agree. In that game I lost all my units because they were as good as none :). With Charm i could at least go away. And a second stack of Luchuirp iron golems was unable to do anything too.

    Look, if we accept that the spells are not resisted. Snowfall = some AoE damage, but not deadly for a huge stack of champions. Domination = -1 unit. Summon aurealis is meh, easy to kill with mythril champions lvl 5-6. Wither is nothing too, I don't care for that str loss because I have more promotions and lots of units and priests to heal them. Tier II spell "blinding light" = total disabling of the whole stack, including inability to cast with mages and priests.
     
  20. Folket

    Folket Chieftain

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    I think charm can be countered with law mana.
     

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