Who historically, was the "first to discover liberalism"?

[MantaRevan]

Just trying to see thoughts here. Who won the lib race in a civ game that exactly mirrored history, and what was their free tech?

 

[jackelgull]

I'd say Americans then they bulbed constitution

 

[Tigranes]

English "discovered", but did not change civics right away:

John Locke (1632 – 1704), was an English philosopher and physician regarded as one of the most influential of Enlightenment thinkers and known as the "Father of Classical Liberalism".

His writings influenced Voltaire and Rousseau, many Scottish Enlightenment thinkers, as well as the American revolutionaries. His contributions to classical republicanism and liberal theory are reflected in the United States Declaration of Independence, almost 100 years later.

 

[TheMulattoMaker]

I wanna say America, but I think it was more complicated.

I believe it was the Scots, originally. Throughout the 18th Century, key Scottish leaders were urging London to grant independence, but the English kings and queens kept giving them some lame excuse about Scotland being on the same landmass and independence not working that way. To which the Scots replied "WELL EXPLAIN IRELAND THEN!" but the English were busy going for a Domination win and couldn't be bothered by a few unhappy citizens. The Scots knew if they were ever going to be their own country, they would need some sort of tech advantage, and they knew the French were going all-out for the Lib race. They managed to get there first with Hume, but they weren't sure what to do with Lib now that they had it. James Watt suggested they get Steam Power, so they did, and discovered that Great Britain had, like, ALL THE COAL, which England quickly used to spam Redcoats and began conquering even faster. Scotland realized that a large amount of "England's" coal was actually in Scotland, but with the Scottish UU being "crazy blueface man with big sword" and rather obsolete, they knew they had no chance of ever defeating England.

The Scottish leaders stewed on this one for a while- they had beaten the French to Liberalism in an effort to win their freedom, only to help the English in the long run. So since London seemd rather uninterested in religious tolerance, most of the Scots set sail for Virginia to join that weird new country whose Unique Ability was "pick at the British army until they get irritated and leave". (The Scots had used this tactic with limited success for centuries, but they figured with an ocean between them and England they'd have a better chance.) They offered Liberalism and Steam Power to Washington- just to trade away the English tech lead, like a good vassal- and the Americans decided that since we were severely behind in both culture and technology, we'd jump into Free Speech and Free Religion.

This has been your "when TMM wanders through Wikipedia" alternate history lesson.

 

[AdamCrock]

I just LOVE Your story Mullato ! ^^ but I'm affraid Tigranes got it right It was John Locke ... and later Jean-Jacques Rousseau with his "Social Contract"

 

[vincentz]

+2 to TMM

 

[Drakarska]

Gotta admit TMM, that was a definite milk and cookies post

 

[TheMulattoMaker]

words

of

encouragement

 

[bhavv]

I don't think free speech worked too well for the USA, their culture is still weak.

 

[TheMulattoMaker]

I don't think free speech worked too well for the USA, their culture is still weak.

Well, we've only been playing for a couple hundred turns. That's a couple hundred marathon turns. We can't decide what type of victory we're going for- we built Apollo, then stopped. Whenever we go for Conquest/Dom, the WW gets too rough, even with Rushmore. We built the UN to go for Diplo, but China just has too many population points.

So we're shooting for a come-from-behind Culture upset. I mean, we're going up against civs that have been going strong for three or four thousand years. Why else would we build Broadway, Rock 'n' Roll, and Hollywood?

 

[Mec AntiKythera]

To distract from the fact that the U.S. also built the Manhattan Project and the Pentagon?

Or simply to combat the WW and to sell the happy resources for a profit.

I don't think free speech worked too well for the USA, their culture is still weak.

Too few Cathedrals and didn't get the Sistine Chapel or Eiffel Tower.

 

[jackelgull]

I think the US is playing on some kind of beyond deity difficulty level and have a +8 for "we hate our government".

 

[Mec AntiKythera]

If Lincoln was right, "...and that government of the people, by the people, for the people..." then it must be some severe self-loathing.

 

[Lennier]

I don't think free speech worked too well for the USA, their culture is still weak.

IDK; everyone seems to be complaining about their culture being "contaminated" by American culture.

 

[civfanchambers]

IDK; everyone seems to be complaining about their culture being "contaminated" by American culture.

The culture of most societies seem subtle. American culture is IN YOUR FACE. Kinda like being hit over the head with a culture baseball bat.

 

[jackelgull]

If Lincoln was right, "...and that government of the people, by the people, for the people..." then it must be some severe self-loathing.

Since when has the government ever operated for the benefit of the people except in speeches and theory?

Aren't we going for some kind of domination victory through peace vassaling civs? Except they seem to break off every several turns with the -4 you forced a crazy dictator upon us. Must be some kind of strange bug. And our capitulations through war doesn't seem to work out so well for us cough Iraq cough...

 

[AdamCrock]

I don't think that US culture is weak ! I mean... c'mon !! Probably everyone with access to a cinema on the planet has seen Star Wars at least once ! And besides US have really strong corporations across the world ! Economicaly I think their GDP is no.1 at the demographics chart - not sure about approval rate though I say that for playing only for a couple of hundreds turns They have been doing an outstanding job !! and probably have the gross culture production bigger than France (With many cathedrals, Eiffel Tower, Notre Dame and free artist from the saloon) and Vatican (with access to culture from Sistine Chapel Wonder) altogether ! I think US should go for culture or SS win Let's not forget that US also controls The Statue of Liberty which can give them one free artist per city as well Obama could do really well with some micromanagement but he gots lots of distraction in Middle East and Ukraine lately

 

[pepoluan]

This thread is so full of win

 

[Mount Suribachi]

TMM is owning this already awesome thread. Bravo Ser, bravo.

 

[AdamCrock]

Kinda like being hit over the head with a culture baseball bat.

... or the "mom's apple pie" , or with a cheeseburger (with fries) or a hot-dog :O and then showered with a cool coca-cola tm. ! xD .... now I'm hungry .... o.O