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Who is Obama's Democratic competition?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Narz, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    You think Bush had a 60+ super majority where he didn't have filibusters to worry about? He got democrats to sign onto his insane proposals all the time.
     
  2. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    The fact that he couldn't get things through doesn't excuse not trying. There's no excuse for not having a special prosecutor go after Wall St. And the Bush torture people. There's no excuse for having no real liberal principles to at least try to fight for.
     
  3. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    My vote won't change things. ;)
     
  4. Miles Teg

    Miles Teg Nuclear Powered Mentat

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    Yep. Because Democrats wanted to sign on to those proposals, or feared that the electorate would punish them if they didn't. That's a great reason to rake 2001-2007 era Democrats over the coals. It has zero relevance to Obama's presidency, when Republicans weren't interested in Obama's ideas, and expected the electorate to back them up.

    So you wanted Obama to make more futile gestures instead of concentrating on things he could actually do, like get a healthcare reform bill passed? You've got weird priorities.
     
  5. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    Of course they aren't going to be "interested" in his ideas if there wasn't any pressure applied to them in the first place.
     
  6. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    You don't know what you can get until you try. And he's done a meh job of trying. He's done a meh job of convincing the public to line up behind him.
     
  7. Miles Teg

    Miles Teg Nuclear Powered Mentat

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    Bush didn't bring out the thumbtacks much either. He got Democratic support for his bills because most of the "liberals" in Washington feared being tarred with the terrorist-sympathizer brush. Obama didn't have that going for him. That's a function of the playing field (namely, cowardly democrats), not the skill of the player.


    There were probes. Republicans told Obama and his bills to go die in a fire. Obama decided to push for one big thing he knew he could get (healthcare reform) instead of a lot of little things he probably couldn't.

    Unfortunately, the public doesn't vote on bills. The House and Senate do.
     
  8. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    Yeah that's the whole point, they were afraid of being labelled terrorist sympathizers. The republicans from Obama's administration weren't afraid of being labeled "non-cooperative" or "slaves of the rich" or other equally damning names you could call them. They should've been.
     
  9. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    He didn't need Congress to do some things at all. Like special prosecutors.
     
  10. Miles Teg

    Miles Teg Nuclear Powered Mentat

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    The reasons that Democrats are terrified of looking pacifist are deep seated, and go back to at least 1972. Every Democrat in the United States talking trash about Republicans until 2012 wouldn't put that kind of instinctive fear into Republicans.

    You've got to play the hand your dealt, and Obama's hand just didn't include a Republican party he could browbeat into being reasonable.
     
  11. Ayatollah So

    Ayatollah So the spoof'll set you free

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    If they show up on the Michigan ballot, they've got my vote.

    That's also the upside of Obama losing the general election.

    And Obama is the #1 reason it ended so badly in 2010. The man does not begin to know how to use the bully pulpit. He cannot negotiate to save his life. He has far more concern with not offending his negotiating partners and the commentariat than with achieving any of the ends he tells us he's seeking.

    It worked just fine for Ronald Reagan. Neither party is monolithic, and by changing the national agenda and tone, it's possible to pick off enough votes here and there. Of course, to do that, you have to have guts, accept a few tactical defeats and temporarily get egg on your face, etc.

    Or like winning (pre-empting) the debt ceiling battle.
     
  12. JerichoHill

    JerichoHill Bedrock of Knowledge

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    The incumbent party will not support a primary against its incumbent president.

    To think otherwise is fantasy
     
  13. Bestbank Tiger

    Bestbank Tiger Deity

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    Liberals really need their own version of the tea party. If you wanted a healthcare "reform" whose centerpiece was forcing people to buy insurance from a private company, you'd vote for the neocon wing of the GOP. If you wanted us to get involved in the Libyan civil war, you'd have voted for a neocon. If you wanted massive handouts to big corporations, you'd vote for the neocons.

    The question liberals have to answer is this: Is it worth losing a few seats like the Tea Party did in Nevada and Delaware? Or should useless DINOs be tolerated just to have a member of the right team in office?
     
  14. downtown

    downtown Crafternoon Delight

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    The party wont, but that doesnt mean a non trivial amount of voters won't. I bet Russ Fiengold could grab 10, 15% in a lot of states.
     
  15. Bestbank Tiger

    Bestbank Tiger Deity

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    Yep. Plus LBJ was forced out in the primaries--he just decided to give up after New Hampshire. Reagan gave Ford a scare (although that was special circumstances). Buchanan made a strong enough early run to embarrass Daddy Bush. Kennedy drew some blood against Carter.
     
  16. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    If the democrats are going to nominate Obama for re-election instead of choosing another candidate the republicans will have a very large upperhand as of today.

    Obama achieved very little of what he wanted during his presidency including changing the message of his campaign promises. He disappointed democrats, and independents alike while allowing his opposition to solidify.

    The democrats in my opinion need to nominate someone else and refuse Obama a second term if they want to thwart a republican win.

    I just don't see Obama winning in his position right now.
     
  17. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    Hasn't it happened before though, in the case of a very unpopular president who is eligible for re-election?
     
  18. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy We'll dig up the road!

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  19. Akkon888

    Akkon888 한국 사람

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    The president has turned into nothing more than a figurehead, IMO.

    Yes, a president can veto bills and has a few niche powers dealing with foreign affairs, but quite honestly the majority of domestic, governmental power lies in congress. A good president can suggest certain ideas, but has absolutely no way of implementing whatsoever.

    That being said, I would gladly accept a republican figurehead that would get shot at (metaphorically, of course) for his disaction. People need to comprehend that other parts of government exist. This debt issue has helped this realization.

    The best presidents were always those who experienced some form of war or foreign issue while in office. Lincoln, Washington, FDR. I am not saying that war=popular president, but I am saying that presidents have the most power in wartime situations (and when the congress is effectively on their side as well).

    Bottom line, it doesn't matter to me about who should be president. It won't change a thing.
     
  20. Ayatollah So

    Ayatollah So the spoof'll set you free

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    That's the way it supposed to be, but in modern times definitely not the way it is - except under Obama, who is too timid to use almost any of his potential power.
     

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