Who looks the worst in this situation?

mrt144

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21163806/site/newsweek/

Oct. 15, 2007 issue - The colonel was furious. "Can you believe it? They actually drew their weapons on U.S. soldiers." He was describing a 2006 car accident, in which an SUV full of Blackwater operatives had crashed into a U.S. Army Humvee on a street in Baghdad's Green Zone. The colonel, who was involved in a follow-up investigation and spoke on the condition he not be named, said the Blackwater guards disarmed the U.S. Army soldiers and made them lie on the ground at gunpoint until they could disentangle the SUV. His account was confirmed by the head of another private security company. Asked to address this and other allegations in this story, Blackwater spokesperson Anne Tyrrell said, "This type of gossip has led to many soap operas in the press."
Whatever else Blackwater is or isn't guilty of—a topic of intense interest in Washington—it has a well-earned reputation in Iraq for arrogance and high-handedness. Iraqis naturally have the most serious complaints; dozens have been killed by Blackwater operatives since the beginning of the war. But many American civilian and military officials in Iraq also have little sympathy for the private security company and its highly paid employees. With an uproar growing in Congress over Blackwater's alleged excesses, the North Carolina-based company is finding few supporters.

Responsible for guarding top U.S. officials in Iraq, Blackwater operatives are often accused of playing by their own rules. Unlike nearly everyone else who enters the Green Zone, said an American soldier who guards a gate, Blackwater gunmen refuse to stop and clear their weapons of live ammunition once inside. One military contractor, who spoke anonymously for fear of retribution in his industry, recounted the story of a Blackwater operative who answered a Marine officer's order to put his pistol on safety when entering a base post office by saying, "This is my safety," and wiggling his trigger finger in the air. "Their attitude was, 'We're f---ing security; we don't have to answer to anybody'."

:lol: is it the U.S. military for looking neutered or is it blackwater for being reckless or is it the U.S. government for not reigning in blackwater in the first place?
 
The U.S. government looks the worst for not properly training our military to properly handle enemy combatants & for funding enemy combatants in their fight against our military.
 
that didnt answer the question. in this specific situation who looks the worst?
Nobody does. The Blackwater people didn't realize they were jacking the wrong people, and the Army people didn't get the message across and straighten the Blackwater people out.
 
The US gov't on all counts:

(a). For having a military that isn't doing its job at providing security
(b). For having a security group that can flip off the military at will
(c). For having a security group that isn't accountable
(d). For spending the money it is for a mess
 
The author of the article looks the worst. A pile of inflamatory hearsay compiled via annonymous sources. Top-rate journalism there!
 
It's just people being stupid.

The author of the article looks the worst. A pile of inflamatory hearsay compiled via annonymous sources. Top-rate journalism there!

Hardly in FIASCO we have Gen Garner and Richard Armitage within the green zone having major "soap opera" with Blackwater. Including problems with so call "brothels" and "lax gun rules". It was pretty wild and disorganised with the first year thou.
 
The writer of the piece looks bad for not citing any sources.

The US Army looks bad because it's soldiers didn't act correctly.

Blackwater looks bad because everyone hates them even more now.


That about sums it up.
 
Hardly in FIASCO we have Gen Garner and Richard Armitage within the green zone having major "soap opera" with Blackwater. Including problems with so call "brothels" and "lax gun rules". It was pretty wild and disorganised with the first year thou.

My response to Fiasco:

Spoiler :
But there is a second disturbing phenomenon of the current genre of the Iraqi exposé besides the problem of writing “history” in medio bello: Ricks’s frustrating use of unnamed or anonymous sources. The Trainor and Gordon account in Cobra II cited their unknown talkers in pseudo-footnotes (“Interview, former senior military officer”; “Interview, former senior officer”; “Interview, former Centcom planner”; “Interview, Pentagon Officials”; “Interview, U.S. State Department Official”; or “notes of a participant”). Ricks trumps that unscholarly practice by quoting sources in both direct and indirect discourse — and then leaving them unnamed: “ ‘Doug’s [Feith] very smart, almost too smart,’ said a Bush administration official”; or “Soldiers arriving from austere, dusty bases elsewhere in Iraq sometimes were shocked by what they saw in the zone, recalled one officer. Thursday and Friday nights in the zone’s bars, he said, had a wide-open feel to them: Everyone was drunk, and the mission was to hook up. Military guys would walk in there, and their eyes would get big.” In dozens of instances, the verbatim indictment of the present policy cannot be verified by anyone other than Ricks himself.

It is well past time to call our present authors to account for this unsound practice, made all the worse by a veneer of endnotes that give us no information about unidentified informants. History is not the impressionistic art of autobiography, memoir, or essay, but is to be offered as an account of what happened with sources that provide the means of checking the historian’s veracity. Once journalists decide that they are no longer writing dispatches of the moment but real histories in the midst of a controversial and hotly debated war — and are intending to hype their work as a best-selling exposé — then they become historians and so are obligated to inform the reader, and posterity itself, where and from whom they obtained their primary evidence.

In a book of this nature, officers who choose to remain unnamed are ipso facto critical of the present leadership. There are no anonymous quotations in this volume that reflect approval of the war. And the wages of such a questionable approach to primary materials were ironically brought home to Ricks himself in the course of promoting Fiasco, when he repeated rumors from unidentified (“some”) sources — variously identified as both American and Israeli — implying that the Israelis deliberately exposed their civilians to rocket attacks from Lebanon to gain sympathy and thus score political points from the world community: “According to some U.S. military analysts . . . Israel purposely has left pockets of Hezbollah rockets in Lebanon, because as long as they’re being rocketed, they can continue to have a sort of moral equivalency in their operations in Lebanon.” But when called by his critics to substantiate just these serious and unproven charges, and after considerable damage to the reputation of the Israeli Dense Force had been done, Ricks backed down and apologized for his unsupported allegations with a weak mea culpa about his revelations: “Ugh. I wish I hadn’t.”

T here are other problems with Fiasco. Many of the criticisms are internally inconsistent. Ricks rightly calls for a lighter imprint brought about by more Special Forces troops, fewer conventional units, and fewer rear echelon supporters in lavish supply centers — all the while lamenting the paucity of present troop levels. But like it or not, in the American way of war more troops will inevitably mean a larger American imprint, and fear of that was precisely one of the reasons Rumsfeld himself was averse to creating a huge presence similar to that in Vietnam circa 1966.


centcom commander Tommy Franks and General Ricardo Sanchez, in charge of all ground forces in Iraq, are offered as emblematic of all that went wrong. Yet the few officers who are praised in the narrative — Generals George Casey and John Abizaid, for example — soon find themselves in charge of the entire Iraqi theater: more evidence of a fiasco or the Pentagon’s necessary adjustment in a time of war?

We are supposed to deplore the reassignment of the gifted Iraqi veteran General David Petraeus to the “relative backwater” of Fort Leavenworth, Kansas — but, in fact, Petraeus was rewarded with a much-needed respite and now may well be scheduled to return to Iraq to replace General Casey as commander of all ground forces there. The result of this damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t approach is an atmosphere of deductive gloom: Retired General Peter Schoomaker, Ricks notes with disdain, was appointed out of nowhere to replace the stalwart and blunt-speaking Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki, who — like the ubiquitous General Anthony Zinni — has talked to journalists and thus is portrayed as heroic.

But isn’t Schoomaker’s Special Forces background precisely the type of resumé needed to conduct Ricks’s favored war of counterinsurgency and special operations? And when we are told that the first Gulf War was a strategic mistake for our failure to remove Saddam and for stirring up an uprising only to see it squashed as we allowed the defeated Baathists to use gunships to shoot down the insurrectionists, isn’t Ricks making the case for the present war? If it was wrong to leave Saddam in power then, isn’t it right to remove him now? And when he describes the never-ending wear and tear on the Air Force as it conducts apparently unsustainable patrols in no-fly zones, the case for the removal of Saddam seems to be cemented.

There is, of course, also the problem of hindsight. For example, rather than deploring the supposedly now-obvious errors of disbanding the Iraqi military, Ricks would be more persuasive had he analyzed the equally bad choice of keeping a Baathist cadre intact in a democratic culture that inevitably would reflect the newly empowered Shia majority.

There are very few Arab voices in the narrative. But as we know from Fouad Ajami’s recent The Foreigner’s Gift, when we are familiarized with the wounded pride, need for honor, and complex agendas of Arab intellectuals, religious figures, and government officials, our purported gaffes seem rather more inevitable than preventable. And we need some insight not only about our supposed allies, but about our enemies as well, since military fiascos are not just the result of one side’s mistakes, but of enemy prowess as well.

But above all there is a regrettable absence of perspective, both contemporary and historical. Abu Ghraib is a centerpiece of the narrative. But it pales when compared to the terrorists’ own penal horrors, as we learn from a sentence or two devoted to the lopped limbs and worse that were found when Fallujah was retaken. And might we judge our folly in pulling back from the first siege of Fallujah, for example, by what happened to the U.S. in the hedgerows in 1944, the Bulge, Okinawa or the Yalu to determine whether such blunders are specific to Iraq, the American military, or war in general?

And when Ricks on rare occasions does cite wars of the past, the results confound the force of his narrative. In talking about the Israeli rebound in the 1973 war, he states approvingly, “Shocked by surprise attacks from Syria and Egypt, the Israelis quickly rallied and launched a counteroffensive, losing only 250 tanks and 772 troops.” His “only” suggests success and adept leadership, although such losses to tiny Israel in a matter of hours constituted almost a third of our deaths in three years of fighting in Iraq and ten times as many tank losses as during our far longer “fiasco.”


None of this is to say that Ricks at times is not correct in his criticism. Tommy Franks should not have left the theater abruptly upon the conclusion of the three-week war. Moqtada al Sadr long ago should have been dealt with for the mayhem and murder he committed. We waited too long to hold elections. Not a single American from the occupation authority should ever have appeared on television. And the pullback from Fallujah in spring 2004 was a near-disaster.

But because the reason-to-be of the entire narrative is to prove the validity of the book’s title, Ricks’s identification of these undeniable lapses loses its force — buried as they are amid a near 500-page blunderbuss blast against the Iraqi war. It is true, of course, that part of the historian’s task is to explain and analyze what went wrong in a war, through citation of sources, primary and secondary. But when a journalist asserts, often without documentation, that everything went wrong, then the reader is unable to discern even what may well be true.

http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/4884441.html

I will continue to quote massive criticisms of FIASCO as a partisan hack piece without sufficient source citation or balance of examination. Further, I will post criticisms of Ricks himself, if necessary, proving what a complete whackjob he is and how he has spent his life as an "anti-war zealot for hire".

In short, I reject "Fiasco" as a partisan hack job written by an anti-war zealot. Get a new book (preferably one that qualifies as "history", "factual", or "evidence").

ps. Assessments of the book that are counter to the criticisms provided will not be given respect. Enough "fiasco". Stop the madness.
 
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