Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by RedRalph, Jan 24, 2010.
[Mexico] = [Salma Hayek]
[South Korea] = [Roh Mu-hyun]
RIP you corrupt, beautifully goofy man
[Japan] = [Junichiro Koizumi]
[USA] = [Dr. Phil]
[England] = [Dave Lister/Craig Charles... OK maybe just Liverpool]
[Afghanistan] = [Sharbat Gula]
Dr. Phil for the USA? Embarrassing, if only because it's so accurate.
But as they're characters from a movie then let's include THE person I think of about Finland if those two don't count:
Bernardo de O'Higgins! I used to live at O'Higgins Street in Buenos Aires a long time ago! (now it's still on my way from uni every single day)
At first I was thinking it's impossible for one person to personify an entire country of people, but as I started thinking what Kiwi could personify New Zealand, a bunch of names starting running through my head, Ernest Rutherford, Richard Hadlee, Russell Coutts, but then I remembered this guy:
Sir Edmund Hillary
Yeah, he definitely sums up the personality and drive of the entire country.
First names to pop into mind:
The UK- Churchill
France- Joan of Arc
Brazil- Gisele Bundchen
Mexico- Vicente Fox
Australia- Crocodile Dundee. Or Steve Irwin
Italy- Marcello what's his face who was in City of Women
Ireland- St Patrick
Philippines- Corazon Aquino
Netherlands- that little bald guy that scored 5 goals at the World Cup
Colombia- Garcia Marquez
Belgium- Hercule Poirot
Japan- Kissy Suzuki
Poland- Lech Walesa
First names to pop into mind:
The UK- Gordon Brown
Russia- Peter I
Mexico- Montezuma II
Australia- Julia Gillard
Italy- Julius Caesar
Ireland- St Patrick
China- Qin Shi Huang
Netherlands- Willem van Oranj
Colombia- Simón Bolivár
Belgium- Jean-Claude Van-Damme
Japan- Tokugawa Iesayu
Vicente Fox? Really? I mean, I know he was the first non-PRI president in 70 years, but, REALLY? Fox?
Canada - Justin Bieber
Ireland - U2
No one come to mind for the rest of the world.
Now I'll do the States!
New England in general - Brian Griffin
Ohio - Satan
Link to video.
Virginia - Edgar Allan Poe
North Carolina - Clay Aiken
Georgia - MLK
Mississippi - Bobby Gentry
Texas - Beyonce
Tennessee - Miley Cyrus
New York - Snooki
New Jersey - Deena
Arizona - Hank's mom
Missouri - Huck Finn
Florida - Flo-rida
Pennsylvannia - That one dude from that one season of the Real World (the D.C. one)
Colorado - That other dude from the Real World D.C.
California - Katy Perry
Washington - Carly from iCarly
I thought he was from New Jersey?
New Jersey, Ohio, Florida, they're all the same.
or at least that's what I hear. >.>
You need to start hearing different people. We may be a bit dull, but we are NOT evil.
Ok, hand me a list of statesmen who became famous by being nice and decent people then.
(Again: I'm talking becoming famous as a statesmen here. Not becoming famous first and then becoming a statesman.
Oh and by "famous" i mean "an average American high school student might actually know them".)
So every statesman must have been a total d-bag or a nice and decent person? Really?
Seriously, though, um: Gladstone? Castlereagh? Both on a standard sophomore-level world-history class curriculum when I went through high school...
1. I didn't write that at all.
2. What i did write i qualified with "usually".
I may rephrase to make the whole thing more clear if that helps you:
Warfare and societal conflict usually go a long way to making a statesman reknowned and usually have a bigger impact on their name recognition than merits or character.
I admit that you have caught me somewhat off guard since i believed this was mostly about statesmen in....the age of electricity?*
Well Bismark should have tipped me off. And since the AP history equivalent i took actually reached "C" in the alphabet my knowledge regarding both figures is negligibly small. I'm just disclaiming that instead of entering some futile discussion regarding their merits. I am ready to admit that you - in all likelyhood - know more about (historic) statesmen than i do. Which in itself doesn't discredit my (rather vague) theory.
They wouldn't have topped my list of people representing Great Britain. They wouldn't have topped my list of British statesmen either. And i dare say i suspect i'm with a majority here. And i guess most people would be able to sum up Bismark's achievements (or Oda Nobunaga's) in fewer words than Gladstone's or Castlereagh's.
So to turn this post of yours into any real argument, you have to tell me in your words what makes the two significant enough (more significant than other British statesmen) to qualify, explain why nobody has brought them up in this thread and convince me that at least 1 in 1,000 Americans (let alone people outside the Anglosphere) would utter their names in response to the question: "Who personifies Great Britain to you?"
Despite the little i know about them offering some indication to the contrary i trust you that they are both of excellent character.
*This is a joke. Please don't get back at me with a definition or timeframes.
But i concede that...
"...by 'famous' i mean 'an average American high school student might actually know them'."
...was a rather unwise definition.
Well, the point of the thread wasn't to have an argument, the point of the thread was to post people you thought of when a given country came up. And although I certainly am interested in both Gladstone and Castlereagh (more so the latter than the former), I wouldn't say "FAVORITIST BRITISHERS OF ALL TIEM!!!!11" (much less "favorite politicians" or "statesmen" or anything like that). That'd have to go to Malcolm Tucker, who is fictional, and already posted in this thread. There is no particular reason for this (according to the OP, there shouldn't have to be!) other than my enjoyment of The Thick of It in general and the Tucker character specifically.
So yeah, I mean, providing objective criteria goes against the whole spirit of the thread. I realized this earlier when I whined that Justinian has nothing to do with Serbia. Well, sure, but wim claimed that that's who he thought of first, so who am I to say he's wrong?
Anyway, Castlereagh is easy. Inaugurated forty years of Great Power peace in Europe, which is pretty good for a guy who died seven years after it started. And yeah, it was mostly his doing, both in the 1813 and 1814 conferences and at Vienna itself. Peace is objectively a good thing, I'm pretty sure everyone can agree.
Gladstone is kind of harder, because he was one of those guys that was an extremely nice, moral dude (not just in terms of foreign policy, where he was all "stand up for the little man" depending on who the little man was at the moment) and whose foreign and domestic policy was almost certainly motivated by his personal morality. It just so happened that his morality was coincident with things that seemed to work in Britain's best interests. He was totally consistent, even over the Egyptian imbroglio (Brits invade Egypt to 'fix its finances'). Specific, objective things? Extending the franchise, helping out the Egyptians, championing the cause of Oppressed Nationalities (tm) everywhere, and so on, but I mean, Gladstone is probably most famous for, well, being that nice guy. And for switching on and off with Disraeli for the premiership.
See, i devised that little theory without objective criteria in mind and for the most part with the motivation of cheering up Shekwan.
But you do agree, that - your personal preference aside - they have rather bad name recognition compared to the statesmen that were posted in the thread?
(Even a moron who can't find Russia on a map knows Stalin, i guess.)
Separate names with a comma.