Who should be first for the "chopping block"?


Hired Goon
Feb 23, 2001
Ringwood, NJ USA
Just thinking about things during my last group of turns.

The time will surely arrive very soon where we're going to have to go on the offense and take the wars to our rivals' homelands. If someone else takes over as president after the new month, they would still find this discussion helpful as well, I think.

With this in mind, I'd almost like to consider building up the area that will be most involved - perhaps rushing some factories, extra defense, city walls, or coastal fortresses to be prepared for the rigors of war.

As the military advisor, Ren should probably chime in here with his ideas, but personally I'm of the mind that we should attack a single civ with all of our efforts while fighting defensively wherever else may be needed. Then shift the arena whenever we have incapacitated or defeated the enemy.

So who should be our first target?

The Chinese: Revenge for the unprovoked attack on St. Leowind. They are advanced and we could stop some tech trading if we take them out quickly. They don't seem to have very many cities either. Capturing Shake's Theatre could give us a city where we can build lots of units without happiness issues.

The Romans: The harassing attacks at Dukeshire are really a pain! They are also advanced and putting a stop to them could mean slowing down the others. Further, they have GREAT wonders to capture including the Pyramids and the Statue of Liberty.

The English: Without their Great Wall they are very vulnerable. However, they seem to be spread out with a fair amount of cities. It could take a while to do away with them.

The Zulus: As usual, they are pretty backward and some cavalry with ironclads, destroyers, and cruisers for support could mean an immediate end to their hostilities. The people of Cornmaster would enjoy the rest.

The Mongols: Their unprovoked attack on Dover, while not as devastating as the Chinese version on St. Leowind, should give us the mandate to teach them a lesson. They are fairly advanced though they offer no real wonders to grab (unless they get Suffrage or the UN). However, the "key civ" trick means that if our power is "Supreme" then our turns per tech is somewhat dependent upon the amount of techs that the Purple Civ has - and that would be the Mongols. We could get them down to a single pet city and constantly feed them techs - this would lessen our own turns to tech as well.

The Germans: Well, they have Sun Tzu's and we don't know where they are yet. Not the best choice, I guess.

So how about some thoughts. We actually have the ability to get cavalry quickly, so if we wished we could probably have enough force to attack very soon - until conscription gets traded all over the place. It looks like we'll get Suffrage right away as well - which will help these efforts if we wish.
I would like to see two thearte's of operation.

1) Clear the contient that Dover is on of any other Civs.

2) Clear the continent that dukshire is on of any other Civs.

Once those are done the troops in their respective areas can then push 1) on the chinese or English 2) Romans.

As far as wacking down the Mongols to a pet city and gifting them techs; I think they are already fairly even with us tech wise right now, so I don't see any immediate benefit to cutting them down right now.
I think the Romans'd be a good place to start, although we really have no idea of the size of opponent we would be dealing with...England seems to be the closest, and as Kev said they are pretty big, but would you rather beat them down now of wait for them to get even bigger & better? I agree that we should clear our land of vermin ( :mwaha: ) especially of the empire we decide to go for 1st (Rome or England)
I would go with Duck for clearing the English off the continent that Dover is on. Then if the English had any cities nearby then we could carry on attacking them. They may not have any wonders but it should make them easier to kill. Alternatively we could kill off the Romans to get their wonders. We should probably leave the Chinese till later because they are quite far away.

So attack the English partially and then eiter finish them off or go after the Romans...
I say crush the civ that poses the largest threat to us, ie either romans or chineese. The chineese are probably easier since they have only five cities while the romans have 13. Attacking the English is IMO not such a good idea, since it would most surely give us lots of small spread out cities that require lots of units to defend effectively. To protect Dover I suggest we take Ormuz, preferable by bribery, then buld a fortress on the forest tile with river. This is an excellent choke point to stop the english attacks.


(I mentioned this breifly in the discussions about build ques for Dover before I saw this thread, because the next build options in that city IMO depends a lot on how we decide to handle the defence of Dover and Marl Downs. :) :)
Okay lets attack the one who we know the most information about and is nearest out of the Chinese and the Romans. I think we know more about the Romans and they are probably closer so it will be best to kill them first...
I too am torn between the Romans and the Chinese, but since the Chinese seem to have only 5 cities :eek: then we really ought to tear into them. It will be relatively easy to take the Roman cities that are on the same island as ourselves but an assault on their mainland will require far more force. Well spotted Mr Spice for that spot by Ormuz - it'll be great to defend and we can get an engineer there very quickly! :goodjob: That ought to keep the English away from us for the time being.
What kind of force are we thinking of taking to the chosen enemy? A couple of transports with cavalry, musketeers and dips/spies? Bearing in mind that we are in a democracy then we should try to have this war over with as soon as possible.
I agree with going after the Chinese. It will take a few turns to gather, but some cavalry, riflemen, spies and an ironclad or two will help us out in this area. Just hope to get to them before they have conscription and force us to dislodge riflemen of their own. We'll also need to get some military techs. We'll be able to steal leadership, but we'd be well served to go for conscription (riflemen), Tactics (cavalry and alpine troops), and, of course, electricity (destroyers - not stronger than ironclads but move further, and cancels their bloody Library).

Should we decide officially on the Chinese, then we should look to do more for some cities nearby like Joespaniel, St. Leowind, and possibly Unknown City. These may be the ones where we have to rush some units to give us an extra punch or relpace those lost in the field.

It will be nice to get Shake's Theater - which I think is in Beijing. Stinks though, because I think that the city is not on the coast so no building tons of ships there.

I will work on taking Ormuz over the next few turns as well.
Although they are getting annoying, I'd prefer not to concentrate on the Romans yet as I think that Dukeshire will be able to hold off their attacks thanks to the defensive ground it's on and that surrounds it. They're going to be mad that we stole their techs but it's the AI and they can't really put us under so much pressure. A fortified rifleman on the hill by the city would take care of any attackers they may choose to send our way. :)
We can then concentrate on wiping out the pitiful Chinese civ. 5 cities seems incredible, but our embassy won't lie - they'll be a pushover! :nya2:
One comment on the proposed fortification spot north of Ormuz:

I believe that a military unit in this spot, while very well defended, will cause unhappiness. Trying to remember the rules, but doesn't the fortification have to be within the city limits for no unhappiness to occur? Or does it have to be only within a certain amount of tiles? Anyone?
So we will attack the Chinese first because of their limited amount of Chinese.

Could we fortify the unit north of Ormuz and then settle somewhere nearby to stop any unhappiness or would the city be too close too others?
Originally posted by duke o' york
Yes, I seem to recall that it's anywhere outside of the city, even in another city. Can we live with this or will it put us back too far for production, etc?

Actually, I THINK that if it's fortified in a "fort" then it will not cause unhappiness. However, I was under the impression that the fort had to be within the city limits for this to be the case.

I'm sure we could live with it if we wanted to set up the fort. It would just depend on the supporting city involved and what other units may be moving about from that same city.
Edit: Duke beat me to it. :)
Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
A unit will not cause unappiness as long as it is in a city (any city) or a fortification that is within 3 squares of a city (i.e. within a cities radius).
Actually, three squares away can place it one square OUTSIDE the city radius and still be okay. The key is three squares, not whether it is in the city radius or not.
Should we think about a sequence of opponents? Rome first. They are nearby and have some great wonders. Rome secure, Mongolia is nearby, our transports don't have so far to go, so we get to the next opponent faster, an important consideration esp. in a democracy. Mongolia down, I'm convinced the Chinese will be near. In the meantime we'll have cancelled their GL and with only 5 cities they'll be falling behind in the tech race. China concquered, the English will be nearby. Somewhere along they way we'll likely discover the Germans and can modify as needed. Finally, the Zulus are left, who are no real threat now, and not located yet anyway. Other sequence are possible, but does this idea make sense? Shorten the time we have to spend transporting troops as much as possible.
Originally posted by Leowind
Actually, three squares away can place it one square OUTSIDE the city radius and still be okay. The key is three squares, not whether it is in the city radius or not.

True, it can be in the corner squares which are not actually worked by the city itself.
Leowind is right - the city radius include all squares two tiles away (except the corners). The fortress happiness radius includes all squares three tiles away (even the corners), thus extending the city radius.
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