Who should be in an Eastern European DLC?

[Siptah]

Exploration: Bohemia, Bulgaria, Byzantines, Rus
Modern: PLC, Austria-Hungary

 

[fantsu]

Karelia would be sweet for a modern age.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

I’ll always be here to vouch for Croatia, at least as an Independent Power

Zagreb of the Croatians, anyone?

 

[Krikkit1]

(sort of eastern Europe)
[already in]

Antiquity:Goths, (Scythians), [Greeks], (Norse)
Exploration: Byzantines, Poland, (HRE), ([Mongols])
Modern: ([Prussia]), [Russia], Austria, Ottomans

??4th Global Age??: European Union, Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, (Turkey)

 

[mitsho]

I think the possible civs are quite well-discussed. I'm much more interested in the leaders. I'm guessing Vlad Tepes and Olga of Kjiv are a given. Both offer such interesting personalities and couldn't have been part of a civ game until now, so I feel like it would be a real missed opportunity to not have them. But what are other options, especially for the modern era? Lech Walesa would be a great addition. But since he is still alive, I'm not sure they would go for it. Tito is probably too controversial as well, so, who?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think the possible civs are quite well-discussed. I'm much more interested in the leaders. I'm guessing Vlad Tepes and Olga of Kjiv are a given. Both offer such interesting personalities and couldn't have been part of a civ game until now, so I feel like it would be a real missed opportunity to not have them. But what are other options, especially for the modern era? Lech Walesa would be a great addition. But since he is still alive, I'm not sure they would go for it. Tito is probably too controversial as well, so, who?

Rasputin.
Yes, I know he's another Russian leader, but he would fit this game's criteria for picking non heads of state.

 

[Krajzen]

First era: Slavs, Scythians, Dacians or Thracians
2nd era: Kievan Rus or/and Novgorod, Bohemia or Great Moravia, Bulgaria
3rd era: Poland, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine

Slavs - to serve as progenitor for Slavic peoples, also very cool entity

Scythians - to serve as an acceptable progenitor for Poland, Rus, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania, also awesome Asian civ anyway

Kievan Rus or Novgorod - trying to figure out non controversial second era progenitor for both Russia and Ukraine (Muscovy is obviously off for this reason besides being boring Moscow->
Moscow continuity)
(alternately we could have both, seeing as there would be enough material to make them very distinctive)

Great Moravia/Bohemia - we've had both Poland and Hungary, time for the remaining massively important Visegrad country; also Poles would accept it as a bridge towards Poland due to a) General very high sympathy towards Czechia, b) It being our closest relative and c) It sort of making sense through Czech role in the later foundation of Polish civilization

Bulgaria - very interesting and very impressive second era coming from Scythians/Thracians/Slavs and turning into Russia/Ukraine (or Romania)!

Poland - in the modern era but going Mughal way of including 17th century as well, mostly because a) it still had a lot of glorious moments despite not being golden era, b) It would be a lot of fresh air after two civs of almost entirely 14th century Poland, c) I still think there is no modern era descendant of Poland that would feel good for Poles

Ukraine - I mean mainly the focus on 17th-18th century Ukrainian Cossack civilization which was semi independent, plus some Ukrainian history of the 19th and 20th centuries. Very interesting and distinctive culture, which deserves spotlight and pop education.

Was not sure about the third ancient era civ - maybe Dacians or Thracians?

 

[Acid.Crash]

Antiquity: Scythians
Exploration: Byzantine, Kyivan Rus'
Modern: Austria-Hungary, Cossack Hetmanate, Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, Ottomans

 

[Phrozen]

Antiquity: Scythia
Exploration: Byzantines, Bulgaria
Modern: Turks, Poland

 

[TheGrayFox]

It's a shame recent world events have made the topic so contentious because Kievan/Kyivan Rus really would be a really interesting addition to the series, especially with the way eras and civ swapping are designed. Firaxis probably could get away with adding them without controversy if they also included a Ukraine themed modern age Civ too (Cossacks would be a cool choice)

Outside of that elephant in the room, Poland, PLC, Bohemia, Sycthians, Huns, and Ottomans are also obvious choices.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Firaxis probably could get away with adding them without controversy if they also included a Ukraine themed modern age Civ too (Cossacks would be a cool choice)

Cossacks are a Russian UU again, for some reason.

 

[Acepox]

For the Russian Empire there's already an obvious geographic predecessor in the Mongols (Golden Horde), but Kievan Rus should be added as a closer cultural alternative. With the Slavs as the Antiquity foundation.

-Cossacks are with the Russian Empire because that was their principal employer and having Ukraine in the modern era would be a terrible idea, from a historical standpoint.

Greeks obviously should lead to Byzantium and then the Ottoman Empire. Aristotle or Alexios Komnenos might be interesting leaders.

Got ticked off a bit by this error upthread, but it's Austro-Hungarian Empire or Austria-Hungary, not a mish-mash of both, but yes it should be added. Should it be immediately preceded by Hungary? Idk, Bulgaria has been suggested, not bad, but the Huns however were significant enough in Antiquity that they at least should be there - Rome needs its rivals.

The PLC should be there as well as a predecessor to Prussia and the Russian Empire - sorry, that's life - and (geographic) alternate to the HRE as step-up from the Goths, and to the Rus from the Slavs.

E1: Goths, Huns, Slavs
E2: Byzantium, PLC, Kievan Rus, HRE
E3: Ottoman Empire, Austria-Hungary

---

Is that a lot for Europe? No. As it stands, Europe is terribly underrepresented given its importance in both world history and Firaxis market base. The positive part is, DLC development will occur after the vibe shift and hopefully Firaxis leans into this to correct the record.

 

[TheGrayFox]

Cossacks are a Russian UU again, for some reason.

Well Cossacks being a Russian UU has never been and should never be controversial because Cossacks are a very important part of Russian history and don't only belong to Ukraine.

The Zaporozhian Cossacks (which would make for an interesting civ representing Western Ruthenians/modern Ukrainians), were nominally vassals to Russian empire for much of history but they were not the only Cossack group that existed. You also had the Don Cossacks, Siberian Cossacks, Ural Cossacks, etc, etc. These groups were rather multi-ethnic but these hosts in particular primarily descended from Slavs in what is modern-day Russia from regions like Novgorod, Ryazan, etc.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Well Cossacks being a Russian UU has never been and should never be controversial because Cossacks are a very important part of Russian history and don't only belong to Ukraine.

The Zaporozhian Cossacks (which would make for an interesting civ representing Western Ruthenians/modern Ukrainians), were nominally vassals to Russian empire for much of history but they were not the only Cossack group that existed. You also had the Don Cossacks, Siberian Cossacks, Ural Cossacks, etc, etc. These groups were rather multi-ethnic but these hosts in particular primarily descended from Slavs in what is modern-day Russia from regions like Novgorod, Ryazan, etc.

I only meant that Cossacks couldn't be used for a modern Ukraine civ, since they are given to the Russians.

I think it would have been nice if Russia got something else, besides the artillery UU, and the Cossacks could have gone to a different civ this iteration.

 

[Evie]

With the modern Era being 1750-1950 (roughly), nations that only came into being after World War I (Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia) are not necessarily the strongest candidacy in my opinion for modern Slavic representation. Not so much Poland, because Poland had an on-again, off-again affair with independence throughout the period, so they have a less bad case.

If I were to look for a non-Russia, non-Poland Modern Slav civ, my first instinct would be to look at Serbia, given their relatively early independence from the Ottomans and their outsized impact on the history of Europe in that period (the spark in the powderkeg is still the spark in the powderkeg).

I'm thinking (and excluding the Greek-Byzantine part of the map), that if we were to have three slavic-adjacent (calling it that because three slavic civs in ancient is a pipe dream) civ, I would likely have:

Ancient: Wend/Slavs, Scythians, Dacians/Illyrians
Medieval: Muscovy/Kievan Rus/Novgorod, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Bohemia
Modern: Serbia, Poland, Russia
(Fourth Era: Who cares, the fourth era is bad anyway)

 

[TheGrayFox]

I only meant that Cossacks couldn't be used for a modern Ukraine civ, since they are given to the Russians.

I think it would have been nice if Russia got something else, besides the artillery UU, and the Cossacks could have gone to a different civ this iteration.

Oh gotcha, I understand what you mean now. You're right Russia could've also been given something like the Streltsy and cossacks could've been given to a specifically Cossack themed civ but I don't think Russia having a Cossack UU precludes having an entire civilization themed specifically around semi-nomadic Ukrainian Cossacks. Both civs could share Cossacks as a unit or Firaxis could get slightly creative and give different bonus to differentiate between Ukrainian and Russian cossacks.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Well Cossacks being a Russian UU has never been and should never be controversial because Cossacks are a very important part of Russian history and don't only belong to Ukraine.

The Zaporozhian Cossacks (which would make for an interesting civ representing Western Ruthenians/modern Ukrainians), were nominally vassals to Russian empire for much of history but they were not the only Cossack group that existed. You also had the Don Cossacks, Siberian Cossacks, Ural Cossacks, etc, etc. These groups were rather multi-ethnic but these hosts in particular primarily descended from Slavs in what is modern-day Russia from regions like Novgorod, Ryazan, etc.

Kievan Rus' can have a cavalry unit too. They have a unique weapon called the rogatina, which is a hunting spear designed to hunt bears and was used by their cavalry forces in the 12th century.

Wiki:

The Russian Wikipedia page also confirms this and cites the following sources:

So i think at the *very* worst you can design a Cavalry unit named "Rogatina" after the weapon and roll with it. "Druzhina" can be kept as the name of an Ability or Tradition.

 

[Ornen]

it's time. put him in