[BTS] Who should I attack first?

[Piquito2223]

I'm playing as the Romans on Deity. I have low relationship with everyone and I happen to border Montezuma, Saladin and Huang. I know Montezuma is very aggressive and he's going to attack me eventually. But the same can be said about Huang and Saladin. Ragnar is also close to me. I could try opening borders with Monty and Huang, get the same religion as they and hope they don't attack me while I concentrate to take out Monty. But I'm not 100% sure this would work because Huang might get bribed by Monty or Ragnar could try a surprise attack while I'm busy. What do you think?

Regards

 

[5tephen]

Welcome to the forums - nice work on first post being at deity!

It might be worth sharing a few screenshots to increase your chances of someone replying.

 

[Piquito2223]

Ok here's some screenshots.

I also attached a savefile in my previous post in case someone wants to see my game.

Regards

 

[Nick723]

Kudos to be thinking about the diplomatic situation and the implications of what you do there. That’s something many players (myself included) struggle with.

However in the nicest possible way, I don’t think you’re ready for deity yet. Deity on Civ 4 is very challenging, and the fact that you’re just improving the main food source in your capital on turn 72 does not set you up for success! I would suggest trying a lower difficulty to start with, and follow this handy guide:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/beginner-help-the-basics.648469/

To answer your question, in this case I might wait to see who Ragnar declares on (you can see he is plotting by the red fist) and then consider piling in.

 

[5tephen]

Opening saves is quite a bit of effort - pictures are good bait to get people interested enough to open the save

I agree with Nick723 about seeing who Ragnar's going for first. It's good to have a few AIs occupied in a war as less likely to get bribed in on you too.

Also agree with your analysis that this diplo situation is difficult. 3 religious blocks with 2 zealots and a massive warmonger in the non-zealot block is awkward. Can't please everyone but 2 blocks who hate you is likely to end in tears.

I also share the concern that you have an underdeveloped empire for this stage of the game. Deity is a punishing difficulty - I'm an expert at losing on it! By turn 72 I'd be hoping to have at least 4 workers if stuck on 3 cities, most of those forests chopped and some cottages developing well or a really clear alternative plan if not doing those things.

Good luck - good to see a new face on the forums. Keep us updated on how it works out.

 

[Pangaea]

You are Rome and have golds and iron, which ofc is a great starting point. But it kinda looks like you've beelined IW hard without any empire development, which is going to be rough on Deity. Even with Rome. The food isn't even improved, and the worker you have there is building a road (I think?) instead of improving it. Food is King is a saying around here.

The typical start in 4000BC:
1. Worker first.
2. Improve food (get food techs if necessary first, not IW).

Think the diplo situation is secondary here (albeit difficult), because the main thing is to get the basics right first, like the others have said.

 

[coanda]

Judging only by the screenshots (didn't open the save):

Montezuma is hopefully not an urgent problem. That desert separates you nicely, so unless you settle more in his direction you shouldn't be a land target (8+ shared land tile border) with him for a while. With luck he sees India as a land target first; since he will attack civs at Pleased, doesn't care all that much about shared religion, and hates Pacifist AIs, there's a very good chance he simply attacks India at that point - hopefully tying them both up for a while and keeping them out of your hair while you deal with the diplomatic mess in the east.

There's no way you can keep Ragnar and Saladin both happy. At least one of the two of them is going to hate you. Ragnar is problematic to reach, so my first choice would be kill Saladin, adopt Judaism, adopt Hereditary Rule, get Ragnar to Friendly status, bribe him into a second war against China. If you don't think you can kill Saladin alone, wait for Ragnar to declare war then just dogpile whoever his target is (maybe Arabia, maybe China). Same basic idea except you might have to run the risk of Saladin going after you for a bit longer.

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

You are Rome and have golds and iron, which ofc is a great starting point. But it kinda looks like you've beelined IW hard without any empire development, which is going to be rough on Deity. Even with Rome. The food isn't even improved, and the worker you have there is building a road (I think?) instead of improving it. Food is King is a saying around here.

The typical start in 4000BC:
1. Worker first.
2. Improve food (get food techs if necessary first, not IW).

Think the diplo situation is secondary here (albeit difficult), because the main thing is to get the basics right first, like the others have said.

Yeah IW before AH, Ag, AND fishing is pretty rough.

 

[Piquito2223]

Kudos to be thinking about the diplomatic situation and the implications of what you do there. That’s something many players (myself included) struggle with.

However in the nicest possible way, I don’t think you’re ready for deity yet. Deity on Civ 4 is very challenging, and the fact that you’re just improving the main food source in your capital on turn 72 does not set you up for success! I would suggest trying a lower difficulty to start with, and follow this handy guide:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/beginner-help-the-basics.648469/

To answer your question, in this case I might wait to see who Ragnar declares on (you can see he is plotting by the red fist) and then consider piling in.

You are Rome and have golds and iron, which ofc is a great starting point. But it kinda looks like you've beelined IW hard without any empire development, which is going to be rough on Deity. Even with Rome. The food isn't even improved, and the worker you have there is building a road (I think?) instead of improving it. Food is King is a saying around here.

The typical start in 4000BC:
1. Worker first.
2. Improve food (get food techs if necessary first, not IW).

Think the diplo situation is secondary here (albeit difficult), because the main thing is to get the basics right first, like the others have said.

So, the conclusion we can make is that food is the most important resource you can have. When I play on Noble I tend to research the food techs first because barbarians rarely pose a threat to me while on Deity barbs are usually a big problem and I have to spend time on making warriors to fog bust. Also the fact techs take a lot of time research on Deity so I prioritize military tech over economy techs, which is apparently a big mistake.

Judging only by the screenshots (didn't open the save):

Montezuma is hopefully not an urgent problem. That desert separates you nicely, so unless you settle more in his direction you shouldn't be a land target (8+ shared land tile border) with him for a while. With luck he sees India as a land target first; since he will attack civs at Pleased, doesn't care all that much about shared religion, and hates Pacifist AIs, there's a very good chance he simply attacks India at that point - hopefully tying them both up for a while and keeping them out of your hair while you deal with the diplomatic mess in the east.

There's no way you can keep Ragnar and Saladin both happy. At least one of the two of them is going to hate you. Ragnar is problematic to reach, so my first choice would be kill Saladin, adopt Judaism, adopt Hereditary Rule, get Ragnar to Friendly status, bribe him into a second war against China. If you don't think you can kill Saladin alone, wait for Ragnar to declare war then just dogpile whoever his target is (maybe Arabia, maybe China). Same basic idea except you might have to run the risk of Saladin going after you for a bit longer.

Sounds like a plan, I'll do that.

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

So, the conclusion we can make is that food is the most important resource you can have. When I play on Noble I tend to research the food techs first because barbarians rarely pose a threat to me while on Deity barbs are usually a big problem and I have to spend time on making warriors to fog bust. Also the fact techs take a lot of time research on Deity so I prioritize military tech over economy techs, which is apparently a big mistake.



Sounds like a plan, I'll do that.

Search this site for 'fog busting'. A few strategically placed warriors goes a long way to reducing how many barb units appear.

IW is waaaaay to expensive for barb defense anyway - if no copper shows up and you don't have sufficient fog-busting, go for archery instead.

In all cases, if you have literally 0 relevant food techs by then, you are hooped. This is a game abput snowballing.

Side note - there are many orders of magnitude more difficulty between Noble and Deity. Highly suggest you move up 1 difficulty at a time so you don't get overwhelmed.