Who wants to write a sonnet?

[Gori the Grey]

O.K., so this has come up in a couple of threads, and I'm finally ready to give it a try.

I not only fancy myself a sonneteer, I think I could coach other people to write a sonnet. (Though an internet forum is admittedly not the ideal medium in which to do so, I'm willing to give it a go, if I have any takers.)

Would anyone like to give it a shot?

Borachio might have indicated he's in. Timsup2nothin once signalled that he's also up4anythin. Joecoolyo, don't think I haven't noticed you emerging as the site's poet. Anybody else on board?

I'd run it as a kind of workshop, so it would involve you sharing your sentiments with everyone else on the thread as your poem takes shape. Subject matter can't be too personal, then, is all I'm saying. But it will be your own poem once you're done. All I'll have done is help you get it into the format.

Mods: This may be more appropriate for the Arts and Entertainment sub-forum. If you think so, would you be willing to let it run a few days on Off Topic before moving it, so it will come to the notice of people who might be interested?

Or is this just a crazy idea? You can tell me that, too.

EDIT: In post #32, Mise asked for an overall description of the process, so, for future reference that appears here:

1) Pick a topic. It can be anything.
2) Develop a rough sense of the thought you want to convey, the gist of your sonnet. This can be sketched in one or two sentences. You might want to think at this stage about whether your sonnet is spoken to someone, or just offered to the world at large as a general assertion about the world at large. And you might want to give some thought to the tone of voice in which you would speak your core sentiment.
3) Begin making an elaborated version of your assertion in phrases that conform to a di-DUM di-DUM di-DUM di-DUM di-DUM pattern of accentuation. (This is where my coaching will come in, Mise. This is the step that you probably can’t do just on your own.)
4) As you develop your thought, make sure that the final sounds in each line rhyme in an ababcdcdefefgg pattern. (This is another place where I’m presuming to think my coaching will be helpful, something I think it would be difficult for a beginner to achieve without guidance.)

 

[gay_Aleks]

This thread is missing something critical. How to write a sonnet, and what would be the specifics of said sonnet?

 

[Borachio]

Yeah. Keep it here, if possible. I hardly poke my nose anywhere else.

The structure of the sonnet is pretty straightforward, imo: 14 lines of iambic pentameter, the first 12 alternately rhyming (in 3 groups of 4 lines), and the last two a rhyming couplet (the tl;dr section?)

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And summer's lease hath all too short a date.

Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines,
And often is his gold complexion dimmed;
And every fair from fair sometime declines,
By chance or nature's changing course untrimmed.

But thy eternal summer shall not fade,
Nor lose possession of that fair thou ow'st;
Nor shall Death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st.

So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.

Yes?

 

[Gori the Grey]

@ Tolni, Anyone who is, in general, interested, will indicate the general topic on which he or she would like to compose a sonnet. I will give some hints on how to get started, and then guide each participant, as he or she moves line-by-line through the process.

So, if you're in, Tolni gets to decide on the specifics of Tolni's sonnet. In fact, it will be my first question to people who indicate an interest (assuming there are any): in general, what would you like your sonnet to be about?

@ Borachio, yes, we'll start with the Shakespearean form. If anyone later wants to move on to the much harder Petrarchan form, we'll do that.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Sonnets are strictly in these two forms?

 

[Gori the Grey]

@ Tolni: No, there are some other kinds. But 99% of sonnets in English are in one of those two forms.

EDIT: So, good, B-man is on board. And in another thread (Rants), we settled on his topic, and even his title: “Sonnet for a Woman Who Isn’t Really the Type to Receive One.” (or possibly “Sonnet for a Woman who Ignored my Letter&#8221

For anyone who’s in, the first order of business will similarly be establishing some starting notion, something the sonnet will be about. This can take the form of a specific statement you already know you want to make (and we just gussy it up into sonnet format), or, like Borachio’s a kind of thinking project (what kind of sonnet would one write to a woman who is not the sort to receive one?), and then writing the sonnet becomes the way of exploring/resolving that opening question.

But now I have to ask Borachio to elaborate a little bit. Why is this woman not the sort to receive a sonnet? What attributes do you have in mind when you say that about her?

(See, things will get a little personal as we work through this, so to anyone else who may be interested: make your core notion something that you can keep at a middle distance, emotionally. (But I hope my question isn't terribly intrusive.))

 

[Flying Pig]

Vikram Seth wrote The Golden Gate in Onegin Sonnets - themselves from Pushkin's Eugene Onegin, which are as follows:


Why, asks a friend, attempt tetrameter?
Because it once was noble, yet
Capers before the proud pentameter,
Tyrant of English. I regret
To see this marvelous swift meter
Deamean its heritage, and peter
Into mere Hudibrastic tricks,
Unapostolic knacks and knicks.
But why take all this quite so badly?
I would not, had I world and time
To wait for reason, rhythm, rhyme,
To reassert themselves, but sadly,
The time is not remote when I
Will not be here to wait. That’s why.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Nice. I might have said to Tolni that, yes, especially modern poets will write 15-line sonnets, or tetrameter sonnets, etc. i.e. write against the sonnet form. Seth's is a great one.

We'll start out with the standard form, and, if interests persists, we'll go on to flout the generic expectations.*

*itself a convention of the form, incidentally. Almost every sonnet is also a kind of anti-sonnet.

 

[Flying Pig]

You mean the Shakespearean? I'd be up for contributing to the scheme, by the way.

 

[Borachio]

But now I have to ask Borachio to elaborate a little bit. Why is this woman not the sort to receive a sonnet? What attributes do you have in mind when you say that about her?

Forthright, self-assured, scornful, fascist (well, BNP tendencies), independent, past the age of romantic notions (allegedly) ... er...

But this might all be a front for a soft heart. Or past disappointments. We. Just. Don't. Know.

 

[Mise]

Looks interesting. I'm going away for a couple weeks but I'll keep an eye on this thread!

 

[Perfection]

Can the sonnet be about anything? Or should it have a specific subject?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Forthright, self-assured, scornful, fascist (well, BNP tendencies), independent, past the age of romantic notions (allegedly) ... er...

But this might all be a front for a soft heart. Or past disappointments. We. Just. Don't. Know.

Ok, this is perfect. This will provide the substance for the sonnet.

So, the first step is to work out some basic statement you want to make in the sonnet as a whole. You can express this in just a sentence or two, but with a little bit of logical complexity: two thoughts balanced against each other, or an if. . . but . . . therefore structure. The core thought behind Sonnet 18, which you cited, might be: You are lovlier than a summer’s day; moreover, my sonnet will make your loveliness last forever. And it’s the “moreover” that makes it logically complex, as I’m using that term.

There are two things to think about as you work up this gist sentiment (and don’t fret about it too much; you’re not locked into it; it will develop as you work out the sonnet). The first is to whom are you speaking your sentence? Are you addressing the woman herself? Or are you addressing some other person, and talking about the woman. Since this is the follow-up to a letter she ignored, I assume you’re still addressing her. And the second thing you to which you can give some consideration is the tone of voice in which you want to address her (or whoever is your audience): miffed, cajoling, bemused. Again, just a tonal ballpark; this will grow more certain as we progress.

@Perfection: your sonnet can be about anything. Love is a typical theme, but Milton and Wordsworth, for example, wrote political sonnets. Milton wrote a sonnet about the value of taking some time off just to relax. And even within the tradition of love sonnets, some focus not on the flowery side of love, but on its darker side: jealousy, betrayal. I might play along and compose a sonnet of my own as we go, and if I do, it will be a sonnet about CFC:OT, about the battles here between SJWs and MRAs! How's that for a subject? If you have that kind of freedom as to subject, what would you write about?

@FP, by “contribute to the scheme” do you mean write a sonnet of your own, or help me coach others in their efforts? Either would be fine.

I’m just happy to have some people showing an interest.

 

[Flying Pig]

I assumed we were doing a line or so each, in which case I wouldn't mind joining the roster.

 

[Gori the Grey]

My idea was I would coach as many individuals as joined up in composing their individual sonnets.

I wouldn't mind undertaking the project as you've conceived it, too. But I'm going to hold off for a while, because doing both simultaneously will just confuse the thread, I think. Or I'll start a separate Let's Compose a Sonnet Together tread.

Think of it as a creative writing classroom, with me as the teacher (presumptuous, I know) and as many as want to sign on as students, each student working on his or her individual sonnet, rather than the class as a whole collectively composing a single sonnet.

Are you in on those terms? Anyone else? Does anyone have a certain someone who would appreciate receiving a sonnet? (Or someone who you'd like to see become a special someone?) Birthday or anniversary coming up, for which a sonnet would be a welcome gift?

 

[Borachio]

Yeah, I thought you might like to write it for me too!

But we'll go with what you've got in mind for now, I think.

There are two things to think about as you work up this gist sentiment (and don’t fret about it too much; you’re not locked into it; it will develop as you work out the sonnet). The first is to whom are you speaking your sentence? Are you addressing the woman herself? Or are you addressing some other person, and talking about the woman. Since this is the follow-up to a letter she ignored, I assume you’re still addressing her. And the second thing you to which you can give some consideration is the tone of voice in which you want to address her (or whoever is your audience): miffed, cajoling, bemused. Again, just a tonal ballpark; this will grow more certain as we progress.

Yep. Let's address the woman herself. And the tone is "what on earth can I do now?" I think. So kind of bemused but more completely at a loss. Which is much the same, now I think of it.

Certainly not miffed. Why would anyone like me? (Then again why wouldn't they?)

Cajoling wouldn't work at all. Not for me. Not for her.

Let's say I'm smitten. And helpless.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I will be at pains not to write it for you.

But you've made good progress here by settling in on addressing the woman, and by identifying the tone in which you want to speak.

I take your last line as the sentiment you want the sonnet to communicate (not further reflection on tone). I'll prompt you to flesh it out just a tiny bit more. (Your customary terseness on this forum is going to be a challenge to me in this exercise). I'll even presume to propose how you might flesh it out, by drawing on some other things you've already shared. I propose expanding "I'm helpless" to include your "what on earth can I do now?"

So here are some possibilities for your core sentiment of the sort that would help me feel that we can get started:

My letter should have revealed how smitten I am, but you ignored it, so I'm resorting to a sonnet.

Or more in keeping with your tone of exasperation: My letter should have revealed how smitten I am, but you ignored it; what do I have to do? write you a sonnet, or something?

That last could be further fleshed out by adding "figure out how to write you a sonnet or something" (I'm picking up on your references to me that you've tried and not succeeded at sonnet writing) "me who doesn't write them to you, who are not the sort to receive them?"

I don't want to steer you in any direction that doesn't genuinely resonate with you. So if you say to me, "My sentiment is 'I'm smitten. And helpless,' and nothing more" then I'll try to work with just that. I'm just trying to get a sequence of thought that can develop through the sonnet.

 

[Borachio]

I'm entirely in your hands, Mr Grey.

I'm not exasperated with this woman at all, though. Just with myself, I think. Surely I must be able to get through to her somehow, or if not, I should give it up completely.

I've got to reach a point of complete and utter hopelessness before I can do that. Which is contrary to my natural optimism.

Or something.

You know, I really don't know what's going on in my own head, in fact.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Before we get too invested in the writing, then, there is another possibility. The poem could be you speaking to yourself about the matter. "How can I get through to her? I feel like I've tried everything and nothing has worked. What can I do next?"

Even if you choose this option, you could still send it to her, of course.

 

[Borachio]

Hmm. I don't know about that. I'd be inclined to say not but I'll have to ponder it.