Who was the best GoT antagonist?

[Hygro]

How being the actual legitimate heir is a weak claim to the throne ? 0_o

Because no one likes him

 

[Kaitzilla]

Stannis kinda deserves "villain" status TBH... I never considered him a "good guy" or "hero" in the story, especially with Melisandre by his side and all that evil magic they are using, no way he gets good guy status. By the Battle of Blackwater he's clearly being positioned as the bad-guy against Tyrion as the hero. Plus he has no redemption arc like Jamie or Theon to muddy up his villain status.

Yes!

Finally someone points out the true #1.
All true supervillians have a unique quirk.

Random Soldier: "..my lord, hundreds will die."

And in true villain fashion, Stannis was helpless as he paused to correct him.

Stannis: "thousands"


Also, no one else burned their own daughter alive. (Shireen)

 

[Akka]

Because no one likes him

Davos disagrees.

 

[AmazonQueen]

How being the actual legitimate heir is a weak claim to the throne ? 0_o

Heir to someone who seized the throne by force. Not much legitimacy there.

 

[Akka]

Heir to someone who seized the throne by force. Not much legitimacy there.

That's kind of an oversimplification, but let's ignore that : who got a better claim ?

 

[Samson]

Heir to someone who seized the throne by force. Not much legitimacy there.

As opposed to...

 

[AmazonQueen]

As opposed to...

That's kind of an oversimplification, but let's ignore that : who got a better claim ?

Well the only thing that gives a monarchy any sort of legitimacy is time so any Targaryen.
Otherwise almost everyone in the kingdom has almost a strong a claim as him.

 

[ulyssesSgrant]

Seriously though why is Dany not on this list?? She is by far the most compelling villain in the series.

 

[Sommerswerd]

How is Stannis a villain in any way ? 0_o

What?!? I was dumbfounded at this question (and typing a long answer) but I see others have already said everything I was going to.

But again, what makes him a "villain" ?

Dude... HE INTENTIONALLY BURNED HIS OWN INNOCENT CHILD TO DEATH...for power... if that doesn't qualify him as evil to you... I just don't know what else to say.

Joffrey's villainy is just a point of view.

Lols… That's true for every character in the show... as illustrated by Akka's comments about Stannis... its part of what makes the show such good watching, the complexity of the characters. Also... I also see what you did there.

who got a better claim ?

Dany.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Claims are, like, a social construct, dude.

But they are a social construct everyone in that society believes in.
If you start denying the validity of claims just because someones a raving lunatic you end up with choosing rulers on merit or popularity (and Stannis loses out again).

 

[AdamCrock]

Joffrey ! He was the funniest silly little king I have ever seen ! And suprisingly the most annoying villain too ! On a side note - maybe his BDSM tendencies developed after Tyrion slapped him silly in episode 2

 

[Akka]

What?!? I was dumbfounded at this question (and typing a long answer) but I see others have already said everything I was going to.

You mean all the completely absurd arguments based on "he's a villain because he's not likeable" ?

Dude... HE INTENTIONALLY BURNED HIS OWN INNOCENT CHILD TO DEATH...for power... if that doesn't qualify him as evil to you... I just don't know what else to say.

Actual quote you're answering :

How is Stannis a villain in any way ? 0_o
(save for burning his girl in the end, obviously)

Funny how you "forgot" the line that you couldn't possibly miss.

Well the only thing that gives a monarchy any sort of legitimacy is time so any Targaryen.

True, but they're absent at the moment (and nobody wants them back). So among the rest, he's by far the best claim.

Otherwise almost everyone in the kingdom has almost a strong a claim as him.

Well, actually no, because Robert was recognized as king and he's his legitimate heir.

 

[Kyriakos]

I forgot about littlefinger. Indeed he was one of the best, always playing the game. But I didn't like his end. It was too abrupt, basically Bran pointed the finger at him and he died. Really he orchestrated almost all the conflicts in the whole series. He kicked everything off by seducing Lyssa and murdering Jon Arran, then attempting to kill Bran with his dagger and pointing the finger at the lannisters. He baited them all into conflict and seized as much power as possible along the way.

Littlefinger had too little actual power to be a (of this level) villain, imo. He is basically little more than Varys (though at least LF is highborn, albeit just barely). And yes, he died in the most underwhelming manner, which made no sense and was anti-climactic as usual (let's recall that if LF hadn't ridden to Winterfel all the starks would be dead).
Usually if one saves your life (obviously for his own reasons) you don't kill him. He didn't even take Robbin with him - that would have been enough to save himself - nor did he wait at least for Jon Snow to be murdered before taking part in the battle.

 

[AmazonQueen]

True, but they're absent at the moment (and nobody wants them back). So among the rest, he's by far the best claim.

Well, actually no, because Robert was recognized as king and he's his legitimate heir.

Not strictly true. Varys and Dorne want the Targaryens back and they have a better claim.
Nobody of importance (except Ned ) accepts or wants Stannis as king.

The Baratheons are always going to face a danger of discontent causing support for the Targaryens, hence why Robert weas so keen to have Dany killed.

 

[Akka]

Not strictly true. Varys and Dorne want the Targaryens back and they have a better claim.

True, but again, at the time no Targaryen heir is actually coming back to claim the throne, so the choice is among the other contestants.

Nobody of importance (except Ned ) accepts or wants Stannis as king.

That's mostly because everyone save the Tyrell just want to put himself on the throne, and the Tyrell just want the one which will provide stability. Stannis is still the legitimate heir of the previous recognized king and the one with the best claim among all other "kings".

I mean, I was just pointing that he's the one having the best justification to wage war to get the throne (after Dany, which was not there at the time), so that it's a pretty bad argument to call him a villain.

 

[Josu]

Littlefinger had too little actual power to be a (of this level) villain, imo. He is basically little more than Varys (though at least LF is highborn, albeit just barely). And yes, he died in the most underwhelming manner, which made no sense and was anti-climactic as usual (let's recall that if LF hadn't ridden to Winterfel all the starks would be dead).
Usually if one saves your life (obviously for his own reasons) you don't kill him. He didn't even take Robbin with him - that would have been enough to save himself - nor did he wait at least for Jon Snow to be murdered before taking part in the battle.

Maybe he has not many power in the TV Show, in the books he is one of the persons that triggers the whole story from the shadows

 

[AmazonQueen]

True, but again, at the time no Targaryen heir is actually coming back to claim the throne, so the choice is among the other contestants.

That's mostly because everyone save the Tyrell just want to put himself on the throne, and the Tyrell just want the one which will provide stability. Stannis is still the legitimate heir of the previous recognized king and the one with the best claim among all other "kings".

I mean, I was just pointing that he's the one having the best justification to wage war to get the throne (after Dany, which was not there at the time), so that it's a pretty bad argument to call him a villain.

I would agree hes not a villain, and although he does some dubious things he is reluctantly led along that path by Melisandre. Hes no Joffre or Ramsay Bolton taking pleasure in causing pain.

 

[rah]

He was sometimes displayed as noble and other time sinister, which is what made him an interesting character, just the type of character that showed GRRM was a good author. The fact that it's been argued in this thread is a testimonial to him.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Claims are, like, a social construct, dude.

You mean all the completely absurd arguments based on "he's a villain because he's not likeable" ?

*sigh*... This is so disingenuous... and for what? What are you so mad about?? Anyway, no. I'm talking about arguments like the ones in Post#25, 27, 30, 39 and 43. I know you disagreed with those arguments but I don't find your responses persuasive. I think you just like Stannis and you're triggered by people not liking him.

Funny how you "forgot" the line that you couldn't possibly miss.

*sigh* I didn't "miss it"... you did... in the sense that you're trying to handwaive it like it doesn't matter. Burning his daughter at the stake qualifies him as an evil villain. Full stop. You don't even need all the other stuff, but there's all that too. Look, I get it. You like Stannis so you're excusing his evil behavior to justify your admiration of him. But that's so unnecessary... its just make believe man, he didn't really kill anyone, hes just an actor. So like him all you want. Luvs you the hell outta sum Stannis till' your heart's content. I enjoyed the actor's performance of Stannis very much, but I don't like the character Stannis, I think the character is a villain, and I don't I don't care to root for him. You do... . Everybody picks their favs... you're Team Stannis... Fine... its really not that serious.

 

[Hygro]

I was rooting for Cercei for a while cuz it was fun, she’s clearly a villain.

Whenever I want the good guys to win it’s the remaining Starks plus Tyrian and a few people who are dead now and definitely not Daenarys, though she was my good guy pick and cool character pick in the first season.

Tyrian + Sansa for iron throne 2020.