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Who would have been a better president the past 3 years

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Disgustipated, Feb 12, 2012.

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Who would have been the better president the past 3 years?

  1. Obama

    51.1%
  2. Hilary Clinton

    48.9%
  1. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    It's a simple enough poll question. So simple, in fact, I'm only including 2 poll options. So no sitting on the fence on this one, make an opinion.

    I'm not including McCain since there was no chance he would have won after what Bush did to the economy. The choice is between Obama and Hilary. I remember the run for nomination was quite close for a while between them two. Hilary could have won it. She was that close to becoming president. So the question is then, if she had become president, would we be in better shape economically than we are right now? What about foreign affairs? And what about other domestic issues. I don't know enough about democratic politics to really say, I just look forward to reading some interesting discussion.
     
  2. stormerne

    stormerne is just a Retired Moderator

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    In my humble opinion, Clinton has been matchless in foreign affairs as Secretary of State. That leaves one choice for president. :)
     
  3. Save_Ferris

    Save_Ferris Admiring Myself

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    How would we know?
     
  4. gangleri2001

    gangleri2001 Garbage day!!!

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    Poor McCain, everybody forgot him.
     
  5. NickyJ

    NickyJ Retired Narrator

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    "Which would make a better drink, Hemlock or Daphne?"
     
  6. Joecoolyo

    Joecoolyo 99% Lightspeed

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    Obama.
     
  7. Earthling

    Earthling Deity

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    I do personally think Hillary probably would have accomplished more regarding universal health care in the US, even with the same expected resistance from Republicans. That's about the only real plus I can list there.

    Obama has been rather moderate on many other issues, though it's impossible to know if the same Tea-Party sort of backlash would have developed in the same way had Hillary been elected - the general inability of all the Democrats to get anything done without much compromise. I think there's far more criticism and hatred from various reactionary fringes in popular narrative in the US than I expect we would have seen with Hillary, but that's not exactly the fault of either. With the economy and general political climate there would be some of the same general deadlocks with Republicans in Congress either way, the same budget and tax crisis stuff to deal with.

    I have to say Obama is still the better leader, more charasmatic, more inspirational. I know it would be presumptuous of me to have some sort of judgement in the historical landmark of having either of them as inspirations to Americans - the first African-American president vs. what would have been the first female president. Only for not being part of dynasty politics and bringing new unity and a base going forward for the Democratic party can I give Obama the nod on being a leader here.
     
  8. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    My reason for not supporting Hillary 3 years ago was that I thought that the Republicans simply had too much hate for her, and so bipartisanship would have been impossible. Turns out that the Republicans treated Obama as badly as I thought that they would treat Hillary, so my reasoning on that was ultimately futile. I also thought that Hillary had less chance to beat McCain than Obama did, based on how prepared the Republicans were to attack her. But that probably wasn't true either, because of how badly McCain's campaign went down the tubes after he picked Palin.

    So having my 2 reasons for not going with Hillary 3 years not pan out, I would rather have Hillary as president.
     
  9. Atlas14

    Atlas14 "Sophomoric Troll Master"

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    Obama was better at making people feel good, giving speeches, and believing in him. Hillary has always been more the decisive and stubborn type. I haven't always agreed with her stances and I rarely felt that she had more and better solutions than Obama, however I feel like she would have been able to accomplish more than him while in office. The problem with Obama is that he never had any real solutions thought through and planned in the campaigning phase, never bothered to develop them himself in the early months while in office, and so was left trying to convince Republicans that hated him to begin with (simply because he's black and Democrat) that his ideas were worth considering. That isn't how politics work. You need a plan in the first place so people think you know what you're talking about. Hillary had this ability. Call it acting, or whatever pleases you, but she cared less about compromise because she apparently put more thought and planning into her "solutions" and so it was easier for her to defend her reasoning. That's my perception anyhow.
     
  10. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Just a passenger

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    Franklin Roosevelt

    *waits to be flamed*
     
  11. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Where they disagreed, Hilary's positions were much worse than Obama's. He ended up dropping all his good ideas and going along with her faction of the party on pretty much everything though, so I don't think it would have made a significant difference.
     
  12. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Better for me personally: Obama.

    I can't stand Hillary's voice.

    If Hillary had run, do we think that the Reps still would have picked Palin for Veep?
     
  13. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    Interesting point brought up above about the Palin pick. Maybe that did doom his campaign. Maybe he could have won if he ran against Hilary and didn't pick Palin. Palin was just simply a stupid move on McCain's part. It's a big reason why I didn't vote for him. If he has that poor of judgement, how can I trust him to be president?

    And I agree that Hilary's voice irritates me. Obama is a much better speaker, and it was a pleasure listening to his speeches during his campaign.

    I do think Hilary had a little more political clout to get things accomplished than Obama, but I don't think things would be radically different than they are today. I do think the Health Care rollout would have been a little smoother. The republicans would have still hated it, but there would have been less resistance from Democrats.

    I ask this thread question because of the close Republican race for the nomination right now. At first I was thinking it would be better if Romney got the clear victory, as that would help his chances (I am thinking of voting for him), but then I thought back to the Obama and Hilary close race for nomination, and realized it didn't hurt Obama at all. So I don't get why commentators on the news say a close race for nomination is bad, and it's bad to have all this mud slinging which would give Democrats ammunition later when the campaign really starts. I don't think it makes all that much difference to tell the truth.
     
  14. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    The thing is, new dirt is always more sensational than dirt we've gotten used to. Otherwise I can't explain Newt's success.

    The thing that would have disappointed me, had I voted Obama is that the gist of his campaign was: How can you expect different results with the same people? And then he appointed the same people. A move you'd expect from Hillary.
     
  15. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    Downtown:)
     
  16. aronnax

    aronnax Let your spirit be free

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    At least if Hillary got elected, there wouldn't be a birther movement...

    I'm thinking...
     
  17. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

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    Hilary and Obama weren't all that different. They largely wanted the same things even if the details and intended executions were slightly different. The supporters of both candidates generally liked the other candidate but saw their prefered choice as being more dependable/trustworthy/female or inspirational/uncorrupted/black. It wasn't very difficult for Obama to pick up Hilary supporters in the general election and it would have been just as easy for Hilary to pick up Obama's supporters if she had won the nomination.

    Romney is very different from not-Romney. A clear victory for Romney would be good for him because it would mean that he had the firm backing of the Republican party's base. In the general election it will be a lot harder for him to pick up votes from Gingrich, Santorum, and Paul supporters.

    I was under the impression that the Republican party forced Palin upon him.
     
  18. Murky

    Murky Deity

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    Obama has done okay with the mess he was left by the previous administration. I do wish that he would lead more on environmental issues and stop kowtowing to the right-wing members of congress. I also think the war on terror needs to shift to prevention of terrorists attacks rather than killing poor people in the middle east.
     
  19. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    According to this he broke 62 of his promises so far, but kept 165. 51 were a compromise. That is not a majority, and I don't think it's such a bad track record considering that the Republicans have been blocking most of the things he's wanted to accomplish.
     
  20. Chibiabos

    Chibiabos Prince

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    "It's a simple enough poll question. So simple, in fact, I'm only including 2 poll options. So no sitting on the fence on this one, make an opinion.

    I'm not including McCain since there was no chance he would have won after what Bush did to the economy."

    Hardly "simple," your question is in contradiction to your explanation. I would never have voted for McCain, but you are asking two different questions there: Who would have been a better president, and who could have won? I am very irritated that you, like so many Americans, confuse these two. I did not vote for Obama in 2008 and I will not vote for him in 2012 -- but ten times as much, I did not vote for McCain in 2008 and I will not vote for any Republican in 2012. And yes, I did vote for someone I felt would be the best president of any of the candidates in 2008: Ralph Nader.

    I am absolutely appalled at my fellow Americans who liked Nader but say I 'threw my vote away' because Nader couldn't be elected ... Nader couldn't be elected because so many felt he couldn't be that they wouldn't vote for him. That's sheer irresponsible idiocy.
     

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